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[News] A lorry drivers view of driver shortage, fuel shortage and Brexit.



jessiejames

Never late in a V8
Jan 20, 2009
2,697
Brighton, United Kingdom
I know there are other thread concerning this, I think people need to hear from a lorry drivers perception. I do tramping in both artic and class 2 day work.
There is no fuel shortage, not enough drivers to deliver. By panic buying that will stop lorries filling up, therefore being unable to make deliveries to shops. For me not a problem £550, to fill up my truck early this morning, I now have 1 full tank and 1 that is just under 3/4 full of Derv, should get me through to wed/Thurs next week.

Why is there a driver shortage and is it to do with Brexit?
Brexit is only a small part of the problem, most UK drivers have followed in their parents footsteps in to the industry, when I started aged 21 I was doing Continental work 3 weeks on 2 weeks off, brilliant if you have no commitment. Moved to tramping, out on Sunday/Monday back home on Friday/ Saturday. Again good if u don't have a family.
The Government were warned back in 2014 that this would happen with the introduction of the drivers certificate of professional competence, (DCPC). Basically every HGV driver needed to complete 35 hours training to be able to remain in the job, and they needed to complete this every 5 years. Older drivers said Bollocks to that waited the 5 years and left. Then the Working time directive came into force (WTD). How drivers have 2 sets of driving hours to contend with, 4.5 hours driving must show 45 minutes brake, but if working more than 6 hours but less than 4.5 hours u just show 15 min brake minimum, but between 6 and 9 hours you need to take another 30 min brake as well as the 15 between 0 and 6 hours working.
Every time the lorry is moving, this is driving time, every time the lorry is stationary this is working time, so stopped in traffic or lights = working time. WTD also means that over a certain period normally 26 weeks your working time must not average more than 48 hours per week. Daily driving is a maximum of 9 hours per day however 3 days a week you can do 10 hours, rest time must be a minimum of 11 hours a day, but can be reduced to 9 hours twice a week, provided that within 3 weeks u reclaim these hours back and he weekly rest is a minimum of 45 hours. All this is recorded in your drivers digital card, if u get an infringement the fine is between £30 up to £5,000 and if vocational licence revolked. I could now tell u about Period of availability (POA) another mode on the tachograph that we are supposed to use.
So what has Brexit got to do with this? The driving and WTD and DCPC are all laws brought in by the EU, now we are out these rules are still inplace, hence why do u want to be a new driver. The eastern European drivers employed over here have a!l left, and anyone new who wants to get into the industry will need to pay up to £5,000 just to get a licence.

If you need to park up in the services it's £30 a night, and if lucky u might get a clean warm shower in them, but chances are you will get filthy showers and cold water, and that is an extra £5 cost.

The industry is over regulated and under payed for the shit u have to put up with. If you can put up with that it can be enjoyable, a way of life as I see it.
 




Kosh

'The' Yaztromo
I know there are other thread concerning this, I think people need to hear from a lorry drivers perception. I do tramping in both artic and class 2 day work.
There is no fuel shortage, not enough drivers to deliver. By panic buying that will stop lorries filling up, therefore being unable to make deliveries to shops. For me not a problem £550, to fill up my truck early this morning, I now have 1 full tank and 1 that is just under 3/4 full of Derv, should get me through to wed/Thurs next week.

Why is there a driver shortage and is it to do with Brexit?
Brexit is only a small part of the problem, most UK drivers have followed in their parents footsteps in to the industry, when I started aged 21 I was doing Continental work 3 weeks on 2 weeks off, brilliant if you have no commitment. Moved to tramping, out on Sunday/Monday back home on Friday/ Saturday. Again good if u don't have a family.
The Government were warned back in 2014 that this would happen with the introduction of the drivers certificate of professional competence, (DCPC). Basically every HGV driver needed to complete 35 hours training to be able to remain in the job, and they needed to complete this every 5 years. Older drivers said Bollocks to that waited the 5 years and left. Then the Working time directive came into force (WTD). How drivers have 2 sets of driving hours to contend with, 4.5 hours driving must show 45 minutes brake, but if working more than 6 hours but less than 4.5 hours u just show 15 min brake minimum, but between 6 and 9 hours you need to take another 30 min brake as well as the 15 between 0 and 6 hours working.
Every time the lorry is moving, this is driving time, every time the lorry is stationary this is working time, so stopped in traffic or lights = working time. WTD also means that over a certain period normally 26 weeks your working time must not average more than 48 hours per week. Daily driving is a maximum of 9 hours per day however 3 days a week you can do 10 hours, rest time must be a minimum of 11 hours a day, but can be reduced to 9 hours twice a week, provided that within 3 weeks u reclaim these hours back and he weekly rest is a minimum of 45 hours. All this is recorded in your drivers digital card, if u get an infringement the fine is between £30 up to £5,000 and if vocational licence revolked. I could now tell u about Period of availability (POA) another mode on the tachograph that we are supposed to use.
So what has Brexit got to do with this? The driving and WTD and DCPC are all laws brought in by the EU, now we are out these rules are still inplace, hence why do u want to be a new driver. The eastern European drivers employed over here have a!l left, and anyone new who wants to get into the industry will need to pay up to £5,000 just to get a licence.

If you need to park up in the services it's £30 a night, and if lucky u might get a clean warm shower in them, but chances are you will get filthy showers and cold water, and that is an extra £5 cost.

The industry is over regulated and under payed for the shit u have to put up with. If you can put up with that it can be enjoyable, a way of life as I see it.

Brilliant post - thanks :)
 




Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
Interesting to hear.

A lot of things are over-regulated and all the digital tracing makes it impossible to bend the rules in a way you see fit as an individual. Appears to be the case in a lot of professions these days.
 


goldstoneseagull

Active member
Aug 9, 2017
207
I know there are other thread concerning this, I think people need to hear from a lorry drivers perception. I do tramping in both artic and class 2 day work.
There is no fuel shortage, not enough drivers to deliver. By panic buying that will stop lorries filling up, therefore being unable to make deliveries to shops. For me not a problem £550, to fill up my truck early this morning, I now have 1 full tank and 1 that is just under 3/4 full of Derv, should get me through to wed/Thurs next week.

Why is there a driver shortage and is it to do with Brexit?
Brexit is only a small part of the problem, most UK drivers have followed in their parents footsteps in to the industry, when I started aged 21 I was doing Continental work 3 weeks on 2 weeks off, brilliant if you have no commitment. Moved to tramping, out on Sunday/Monday back home on Friday/ Saturday. Again good if u don't have a family.
The Government were warned back in 2014 that this would happen with the introduction of the drivers certificate of professional competence, (DCPC). Basically every HGV driver needed to complete 35 hours training to be able to remain in the job, and they needed to complete this every 5 years. Older drivers said Bollocks to that waited the 5 years and left. Then the Working time directive came into force (WTD). How drivers have 2 sets of driving hours to contend with, 4.5 hours driving must show 45 minutes brake, but if working more than 6 hours but less than 4.5 hours u just show 15 min brake minimum, but between 6 and 9 hours you need to take another 30 min brake as well as the 15 between 0 and 6 hours working.
Every time the lorry is moving, this is driving time, every time the lorry is stationary this is working time, so stopped in traffic or lights = working time. WTD also means that over a certain period normally 26 weeks your working time must not average more than 48 hours per week. Daily driving is a maximum of 9 hours per day however 3 days a week you can do 10 hours, rest time must be a minimum of 11 hours a day, but can be reduced to 9 hours twice a week, provided that within 3 weeks u reclaim these hours back and he weekly rest is a minimum of 45 hours. All this is recorded in your drivers digital card, if u get an infringement the fine is between £30 up to £5,000 and if vocational licence revolked. I could now tell u about Period of availability (POA) another mode on the tachograph that we are supposed to use.
So what has Brexit got to do with this? The driving and WTD and DCPC are all laws brought in by the EU, now we are out these rules are still inplace, hence why do u want to be a new driver. The eastern European drivers employed over here have a!l left, and anyone new who wants to get into the industry will need to pay up to £5,000 just to get a licence.

If you need to park up in the services it's £30 a night, and if lucky u might get a clean warm shower in them, but chances are you will get filthy showers and cold water, and that is an extra £5 cost.

The industry is over regulated and under payed for the shit u have to put up with. If you can put up with that it can be enjoyable, a way of life as I see it.

It all sounds incredibly bureaucratic, simplify the rules, reduce the barriers to entry, improve the conditions and pay and you will see people want to do the job. The job market is not exactly thriving for young people.
 




junior

Well-known member
Dec 1, 2003
6,497
Didsbury, Manchester
Thanks for taking the time to explain that.

Hopefully that will explain a thing or two to all the simpletons who are walking around saying there's a fuel shortage due to brexit.

FWIW and to back up your post, I hold a HGV (C+E) license that I got in the RAF. I got it before all this CPC stuff came in. I'd quite happily go and drive a lorry on a few of my days off to help out and earn a few quid, but it's just not worth it to do all the CPC stuff.
 


Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,573
West west west Sussex
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pb21

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2010
6,273
So what has Brexit got to do with this? The driving and WTD and DCPC are all laws brought in by the EU, now we are out these rules are still inplace

Now we have left the EU we are in control, why haven't these laws changed for the better? Is it because there is an ongoing commitment to adhere to them?
 




beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,278
Now we have left the EU we are in control, why haven't these laws changed for the better? Is it because there is an ongoing commitment to adhere to them?

takes time to change legislation and go through the taunts of making drivng unsafe, race to the bottom etc.

think the competance test is major problem as it prevents people with HGV moving in and out of trade.
 


Leekbrookgull

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2005
16,239
Leek
Leaving the EU is a red herring,because the EU will not accept UK drivers whether HGV/PSV holders to drive within the EU unless you have the certificates to drive as in CPC/Digital Card and more and that's before you even start on Domestic driving hours and EU hours and then put in the legal requirement break times and as JJ points out all this on your Digi Card which is downloaded by yourself or company and sent to VOSA/DVLA .
 


jessiejames

Never late in a V8
Jan 20, 2009
2,697
Brighton, United Kingdom
Much appreciated. What’s the solution in your view? I posted elsewhere about Waitrose raising wages.

I'm lucky my company looks after its drivers, all our sleeper cabs are fitted with the extras like microwave, tv, air con,coffee maker they also pay in cash £30 a overnight money and lay for my medical and DCPC. I could earn a bit extra switching jobs to another company as a lot are now putting up wage to attract more drivers, the only problem with that is price increases in the shops.

By law all 5.5t vehicles and above are required to have a safety inspection every 6 to 8 weeks, at my depot we have 16 vehicles, my company across the whole of Eng!and and Scotland have a total of 350 at £125 per vehicle that's a large expense every 6 to 8 weeks, it was looked into the possibility of extending the interval to 12 weeks to help out but that hasn't happened. Even a 1 year old lorry must have an MOT, no like a car just book it in, the service provider will need the vehicle is off the road for at least 4 days to have a service and prep work including engine steam clean, that is standard. Just to pass the cost is £400, including MOT lane fee, and test. These prices are good. Chang MOT to 3 years instead of first year. Offer VAT free adblue, give more VAT back on Derv, give lorry drivers better parking facilities, in Kent u can't park in layby you get clamped. Drive a lorry in Europe Lorry parking facilities are excellent safe and free, just pay 3 Euros for the showers, this goes to paying to have them cleaned.
My company will pay current staff to get u training and pass your HGV if needs to fill vacancies but you must stay with us for 3 years after, unfortunately the Government don't offer any incentive for this. The Government should offer grants to help with the training.
 




The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,381
West is BEST
While the OP clearly knows his stuff and does the job, one of the major reasons we have a shortage is down to foreign drivers not having visas to enter the U.K. because of Brexit.

Boris Johnson is very likely to U-Turn by Monday to fix this. Something, according to a government official, they have been reticent to do as relaxing immigration laws would reveal Brexit is to blame for many of the driver shortages.

Whilst I acknowledge there are existing shortages due to factors the OP outlined, the role of Brexit in this mess cannot be downplayed. It’s a major cause of the shortages.
 
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Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,662
Back in Sussex
While the OP clearly knows his stuff and does the job, one of the major reasons we have a shortage is down to foreign drivers not having visas to enter the U.K. because of Brexit.
Boris Johnson is very likely to U-Turn to fix this.
Whilst I acknowledge there are existing shortages due to factors the OP outlined, the role of Brexit in this mess cannot be downplayed. It’s a major cause of the shortages.

I've just read the following and it's probably worth anyone with an interest to spend a few minutes doing likewise...

https://theblacksea.eu/stories/romanian-trucker-polish-wage-dutch-workplace/

I had no idea that haulage was such a sordid and horrible-sounding world, full of exploitation.

Allowing more cheap labour in is only going to be a sticking plaster.
 


jessiejames

Never late in a V8
Jan 20, 2009
2,697
Brighton, United Kingdom
While the OP clearly knows his stuff and does the job, one of the major reasons we have a shortage is down to foreign drivers not having visas to enter the U.K. because of Brexit.
Boris Johnson is very likely to U-Turn to fix this.
Whilst I acknowledge there are existing shortages due to factors the OP outlined, the role of Brexit in this mess cannot be downplayed. It’s a major cause of the shortages.

In a way you could be right, but I would not say Brexit is a major cause. Europe is having the same problems, not as bad as over here. It seems that these drivers who have left are not going into the industry where they have gone back to.

This Government thinks by letting you go straight to a class 1 driver and missing out class 2 is going to solve problems, it's not I can see more accidents happening this way, reverse a rigid 38 ton truck is like reversing a car only bigger and your visibility is less, reverse an articulated you then the steering wheel in the opposite direction to where you want to go, sounds easy but it's not.. You need to do pass 2 experience then go to an articulated.
 




The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,381
West is BEST
I've just read the following and it's probably worth anyone with an interest to spend a few minutes doing likewise...

https://theblacksea.eu/stories/romanian-trucker-polish-wage-dutch-workplace/

I had no idea that haulage was such a sordid and horrible-sounding world, full of exploitation.

Allowing more cheap labour in is only going to be a sticking plaster.

Appalling but not surprising. I knew a guy who moved his whole logistics operation from the U.K. to Eastern Europe to take advantage of this.
No wonder there is a shortage.

On The Today program the other day a transport expert says we are up to 90k drivers short in the U.K. He reckoned 40k is through people not wanting to do the job and with the average age of a truck driver being 57, many are retiring out of the profession.

20-30k through a mix of drivers leaving because they don’t want to work in the U.K. now we have left the EU and returning home because of Covid. And because of test delays due to covid.

And 20k unable to work in the U.K. because of post-Brexit visa requirements.

That’s one heck of a shortfall. Whatever the reasons.
 
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Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
21,583
Brighton
In a way you could be right, but I would not say Brexit is a major cause. Europe is having the same problems, not as bad as over here. It seems that these drivers who have left are not going into the industry where they have gone back to.

This Government thinks by letting you go straight to a class 1 driver and missing out class 2 is going to solve problems

The Government also thinks we need to get a load of foreign HGV drivers back into the Country ASAP.

“Ministers are working on plans for a temporary visa scheme to make it easier for foreign lorry drivers to come to the UK.
Final details of exactly how the initiative will work are expected to be announced this weekend.
Any changes to immigration rules will be temporary, with a cap on the number of workers allowed to enter the UK.
The shortage of hauliers threatens more disruption to deliveries of petrol, food and other goods.” BBC
 


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