[Football] Should the 'randomly generated' fixture list be seeded.

Stat Brother · Sep 19, 2021

Obviously the randomly generated fixture list isn't random at all and is rather finessed for the good of the product.

After yesterday's results it seems unlikely that swapping our fixtures with Norwich would see them currently 6th, whereas the Albion would more than likely be in their usual position.

With seeded fixtures if Norwich began October odds on favourites for relegation, at least they would have had some responsibility for their own downfall.

If the previous seasons table was divided into 4 groups.
In their first 5 games Norwich have played

3 x top seed.
1 x second seed.
1 x bottom seed.

Whereas we've had

1x top seed (today)
1x second seed.
3 x bottom seed.

No prizes for guessing which forum is wistfully dreaming of a European adventure and which is missing playing Ipswich.

The Optimist · Sep 19, 2021

It is a good point. Despite rationally knowing they have had a tough set of fixtures I bet the Norwich players are now lacking confidence and therefore more likely to lose upcoming easier games.

Stat Brother · Sep 19, 2021

The Optimist said:
It is a good point. Despite rationally knowing they have had a tough set of fixtures I bet the Norwich players are now lacking confidence and therefore more likely to lose upcoming easier games.

Jonathan Wilson alludes to it in his pre-match write up about us.
I just fleshed it out a bit.

Nitram · Sep 19, 2021

Fat Boy Fat · Sep 19, 2021

No, absolutely preposterous idea.

We have already destroyed the integrity of many cup competitions to the self serving interests of the big clubs by doing precisely this in various forms.

The fixtures should be as random as is possible to allow. Some teams benefit, some don't.

Neville's Breakfast · Sep 19, 2021

Stat Brother said:
Obviously the randomly generated fixture list isn't random at all and is rather finessed for the good of the product.

After yesterday's results it seems unlikely that swapping our fixtures with Norwich would see them currently 6th, whereas the Albion would more than likely be in their usual position.

With seeded fixtures if Norwich began October odds on favourites for relegation, at least they would have had some responsibility for their own downfall.

If the previous seasons table was divided into 4 groups.
In their first 5 games Norwich have played

3 x top seed.
1 x second seed.
1 x bottom seed.

Whereas we've had

1x top seed (today)
1x second seed.
3 x bottom seed.

No prizes for guessing which forum is wistfully dreaming of a European adventure and which is missing playing Ipswich.

Why ? Football isn’t fair, life isn’t fair. Norwich have had tough opening fixtures. It’s a game, so who cares ? They just need to get on with it. Don’t ever try following cricket if you are looking to iron out inequality. Losing the toss on a Spring morning as the sea mist moves in over Hove is another life lesson and all part of the beauty of sport

sparkie · Sep 19, 2021

The moment this is introduced is the moment the "big clubs" will start manipulating it to their advantage.

The thin end of the wedge. A slippery slope.

TWOCHOICEStom · Sep 19, 2021

Stat Brother said:
With seeded fixtures if Norwich began October odds on favourites for relegation, at least they would have had some responsibility for their own downfall.

Call me crazy. But I would say it's only Norwich who are responsible for the points Norwich get during a season.

Stat Brother · Sep 19, 2021

Fat Boy Fat said:
No, absolutely preposterous idea.

We have already destroyed the integrity of many cup competitions to the self serving interests of the big clubs by doing precisely this in various forms.

The fixtures should be as random as is possible to allow. Some teams benefit, some don't.

But the league is seeded anyway.

If anything this would be the reverse of destroying the integrity.
Until such time as The Top 10 decide 'we're always top 10, let's not bother with the bottom 10' (have I talked myself out of this already? )

Stomping all over Norwich before the clocks have gone back is hardly for the good of the game.
They could still have no points.
Their fixtures wouldn't look drastically different, they just could have played Southampton instead of Liverpool.

GT49er · Sep 19, 2021

No. Pointless idea.

Stat Brother · Sep 19, 2021

sparkie said:
The moment this is introduced is the moment the "big clubs" will start manipulating it their advantage.

The thin end of the wedge. A slippery slope.

Yeah I got to that quite quickly in my last post!

In the unlikely event it could be used for holistic reasons I don't see it as the end of the world (despite teams using it to bring about the end of the world!)

It's not American Football where the Norwich's of their world are kept apart from their Man City's.

Fat Boy Fat · Sep 19, 2021

sparkie said:
The moment this is introduced is the moment the "big clubs" will start manipulating it to their advantage.

The thin end of the wedge. A slippery slope.

Yep, and they will want to form their own league where they get to play with the other big boys in their own playground... Oh!

Dorset Seagull · Sep 19, 2021

If we had swapped fixtures with Norwich we would have had the 3 points against Watford so wouldn't have felt so suicidal

studio150 · Sep 19, 2021

Why not go all Scottish and divide the table for the last 9 games of the season so the top 10 play each other once and the bottom 10 play each other once.

Stupid idea I know but TV would probably pay extra to get more meaningful games.

beorhthelm · Sep 19, 2021

no, pointless and preposterous. i dont see what it would achieve, other than front load the season with lots of expected relegation derbies, and end season with months of dire slog of bottom half against top half.

Stat Brother · Sep 19, 2021

Fat Boy Fat said:
Yep, and they will want to form their own league where they get to play with the other big boys in their own playground... Oh!

But the fixture list isn't randomly generated.

City don't play Utd first game of the season then again on a Tuesday in January.
We don't get Newcastle away on Boxing Day.

If anything seeding the fixtures would make life easier and more transparent for the 'super computer'.

MattBackHome · Sep 19, 2021

Shit idea

Stat Brother · Sep 19, 2021

MattBackHome said:
Shit idea

I probably should have added Jonathan Wilson's point in my first post:-

There’s a semi-serious point lurking there about the order of games a side plays and whether more of an attempt should be made to avoid runs of stronger or weaker teams. Norwich, for instance, have faced the opposite phenomenon this season, playing Liverpool, Manchester City, Leicester and Arsenal – all top-eight sides last year. They were almost guaranteed a poor start – which could knock confidence before the more winnable games to come. Steve Bruce’s Sunderland reign fell apart when his side, having just sold Darren Bent, took one point from a run of eight league games in which they played the previous season’s top seven plus Stoke away**.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-under-graham-potter-but-hard-yards-lie-ahead

** Wilson is a Sunderland fan.

Fat Boy Fat · Sep 19, 2021

Stat Brother said:
But the fixture list isn't randomly generated.

City don't play Utd first game of the season then again on a Tuesday in January.
We don't get Newcastle away on Boxing Day.

If anything seeding the fixtures would make life easier and more transparent for the 'super computer'.

As I said I'm my original reply "as random as possible". There are clearly scenarios where that isn't possible.

My understanding is that ALL clubs are allowed to make a couple of requests for fixture modifications, the police throw in a few (which possibly covers United v City first game scenario), then logistics for things like Boxing Day, so no travel to the far ends of the country for most. The rest of the fixtures should then be random, with no seeding.

Stat Brother · Sep 19, 2021

Fat Boy Fat said:
As I said I'm my original reply "as random as possible". There are clearly scenarios where that isn't possible.

My understanding is that ALL clubs are allowed to make a couple of requests for fixture modifications, the police throw in a few (which possibly covers United v City first game scenario), then logistics for things like Boxing Day, so no travel to the far ends of the country for most. The rest of the fixtures should then be random, with no seeding.

I wonder if the tinkering is a little more than we think it is.

As much as I think anyone seeing the fixture list as random is a little naive that's nothing compared to myself.

After reading Wilson's throw away paragraph I think:-

'Actually nobody loses and the newly promoted teams don't get repeatedly punched in the face'.

It took a whole 24 minutes to realise how 'they' would use something as benign as this to screw 'us' over - shame on me.

Magic bean salesmen - today's your day to empty my wallet.

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[Football] Should the 'randomly generated' fixture list be seeded.

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