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[Football] Derby County facing potential 21-point deduction



Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,632
Had the Derby board not cheated then it would be them - and not Wycombe - in the third tier. The Football League should therefore hand out the same punishment as was handed out to the Saracens rugby team, i.e. they are hit with a 118 point deduction which means even if they win their remaining 38 games they will finish on 6 points and so mathematically be relegated.
 




hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,457
Chandlers Ford
I'd never rejoice at another club going to the wall. Too important a part of the local community and a tragedy like Bury should simply never be allowed to happen.

If Derby have to start again, however many leagues lower - even as far as Wimbledon or Hereford did, then so be it - there will still be a club, for the true supporters to rally behind.

I truly feel sorry for any club's fans going through this kind of stress - although after experiencing some pretty nasty stuff up there on occasion, plus the booing of Solly March as he was stretchered off, the racial abuse of Goldson, and the physical man-handling and jeering of our devastated players at the final whistle in the play off game - Derby fans are far from my favourites.

(sorry [MENTION=12706]mikeyjh[/MENTION] )
 


e77

e77

Well-known member
May 23, 2004
7,268
Worthing
I listened to the frankly indispensable Price of Football podcast with their fan rep on and he annoyed me a bit. Even if the owner's main problem was not knowing what he was doing rather than anything more nefarious, they openly admit to pushing FFP to the absolute limit and it kept them in the division ahead of Wycombe.

I never want to see a club go to the wall but in this example they need to go to the back of the queue and start again.
 








Hugo Rune

Hugo Rune

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Feb 23, 2012
21,667
Brighton
e77 said:
I listened to the frankly indispensable Price of Football podcast with their fan rep on and he annoyed me a bit. Even if the owner's main problem was not knowing what he was doing rather than anything more nefarious, they openly admit to pushing FFP to the absolute limit and it kept them in the division ahead of Wycombe.

I never want to see a club go to the wall but in this example they need to go to the back of the queue and start again.
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I agree with this point. The Derby fan was justifying push FFP to the absolute limit. That’s really not in the spirit of it at all. He didn’t seem as cross with Mel Morris that maybe many Albion fans would be with Bloom if he’d gambled everything, lost and then walked out.

He also didn’t seem that worried about the ownership of the stadium, I got the impression he thought it was a good idea flogging it off to some recently made up company just to cheat FFP.

This highly entertaining pod was a classic this week though, I particularly enjoyed the Manchester Accountants League bantz.
 


dadams2k11

dadams2k11

ID10T Error
Jun 24, 2011
4,949
Brighton


El Presidente

El Presidente

The ONLY Gay in Brighton
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,716
Pattknull med Haksprut
dadams2k11 said:
They blame the DULLARD for letting the EFL know about thier accounting methods (loop hole).
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The EFL dismissed the DULLARD who reported their suspect accounting practices which artificially decreased the club losses as a ‘troublemaker’ and ignored them, then charged Derby at a later date on exactly the same issues.

Perhaps If they had listened at the time this cluster**** would not have happened.
 




dadams2k11

dadams2k11

ID10T Error
Jun 24, 2011
4,949
Brighton
El Presidente said:
The EFL dismissed the DULLARD who reported their suspect accounting practices which artificially decreased the club losses as a ‘troublemaker’ and ignored them, then charged Derby at a later date on exactly the same issues.

Perhaps If they had listened at the time this cluster**** would not have happened.
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Mr Gibson fault as well apparently. You lot have it in for them. Everyone to blame but Mr Candy Crush.
 
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drew

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,073
Burgess Hill
El Presidente said:
The EFL dismissed the DULLARD who reported their suspect accounting practices which artificially decreased the club losses as a ‘troublemaker’ and ignored them, then charged Derby at a later date on exactly the same issues.

Perhaps If they had listened at the time this cluster**** would not have happened.
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Thought you missed a trick in yesterday's pod. You used the word 'obfuscation' when a reference to 'smoke and mirrors' would have been better, especially as you were discussing with KD at the time!
 


Easy 10

Easy 10

Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Jul 5, 2003
61,791
Location Location
SI 4 BHA said:
Wycombe might not be taking this lying down.

Wycombe considering legal action against League One relegation
Wycombe Wanderers are considering taking legal action over their relegation to League One last season following Derby County's move towards administration.

The club were relegated from the Championship after finishing a point behind the Rams with Derby owner Morris admitting his club would have been at risk of a points deduction if it had submitted accounts for 2017-18 without using the club's controversial amortisation method.

Derby were subsequently fined £100,000 and order to file restated accounts but, despite the threat of a points deduction that would have seen them relegated instead of Wycombe, they never materialised in time.

Speaking to BBC Sport about the on-going situation, Wycombe chairman and chief executive Rob Couhig said: "Not being in the Championship this year has cost us, on the surface, around £10m.

"It has probably cost another £5-10m in residual monies that would have come from us being in the Championship for a second year. It is a £15-20m loss.

"I don't know if there is a viable claim or not but there is no question we will look.

"Representing Wycombe, I am furious. He (Mel Morris) knew last summer that the club would end up with a points deduction and they made a deliberate policy to fight it until the end so they could get to this season, keep themselves in the Championship and keep the Championship money and put us back into League One."
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Wycombe were EXTREMELY fortunate to get their season in the Championship - they benefited from the 2019/20 L1 season ending a dozen or so games early, with their "calculated projected points" (from games that were never played) catapulting them from midtable up into to 3rd place, above FIVE teams who had finished with a better points tally and GD than them, nudging what was at the time the 6th placed team, Peterborough, out of the Playoff picture.

They then went up via the playoffs (which they had not earned), and performed exactly as you'd expect a midtable L1 team to perform in the Championship, finishing in the bottom 3 with 43 points from 46 games. The notion that they've been 'cheated' by Derby is highly questionable, being as they shouldn't have even been in that division in the first place.
 
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N

nickjhs

Well-known member
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Apr 9, 2017
1,300
Ballarat, Australia
Weststander said:
Bloom stuck to the rules every club physically signed up to.

Mel Morris was a sly **** who didn’t, by a huge margin, giving them an unfair advantage in the Championship over honest owners and clubs. Karma, it failed. By many accounts the long ongoing EFL cases against the club have deterred billionaire buyers = double karma.

If Morris hadn’t have cheated, they’d have a much reduced payroll cost base and he’d still have wealth to trickle in gradually.
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Exactly, the club has worked with what they are allowed under the rules and what Bloom can afford. We are where we are due to careful management and sticking to a long term plan. How many times did we nearly get to the PL? After each near miss we didn't panic, didn't spend big, just kept doing what we were doing with intelligent affordable changes, biding our time.
 


El Presidente

El Presidente

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Jul 5, 2003
39,716
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Hugo Rune said:
This highly entertaining pod was a classic this week though, I particularly enjoyed the Manchester Accountants League bantz.
Click to expand...

Thank you, whilst the show is a lot of fun and working eith KD is a delight, it’s very time consuming given the number of stories we end up covering and most are depressing.

I spent an hour yesterday dealing with phone calls from Derby employees because MM doesn’t give a hoot about them and has now effectively abandoned the club having mismanaged it so severely that liquidation is a possibility.
 


mikeyjh

mikeyjh

Well-known member
Dec 17, 2008
4,505
Llanymawddwy
hans kraay fan club said:
I'd never rejoice at another club going to the wall. Too important a part of the local community and a tragedy like Bury should simply never be allowed to happen.

If Derby have to start again, however many leagues lower - even as far as Wimbledon or Hereford did, then so be it - there will still be a club, for the true supporters to rally behind.

I truly feel sorry for any club's fans going through this kind of stress - although after experiencing some pretty nasty stuff up there on occasion, plus the booing of Solly March as he was stretchered off, the racial abuse of Goldson, and the physical man-handling and jeering of our devastated players at the final whistle in the play off game - Derby fans are far from my favourites.

(sorry [MENTION=12706]mikeyjh[/MENTION] )
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No problem! I agree entirely with your first sentence (not so much with the rest!). You are so right about how important the football club is to the city - Even if you're not an avid fan (or god forbid support one of the big 6 or 7) or not a football fan, their still your club and you do hate Forest! More seriously, like you said, doesn't matter what league you're in as long as you've got a club to support.
 




Weststander

Weststander

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Aug 25, 2011
64,311
Withdean area
El Presidente said:
Thank you, whilst the show is a lot of fun and working eith KD is a delight, it’s very time consuming given the number of stories we end up covering and most are depressing.

I spent an hour yesterday dealing with phone calls from Derby employees because MM doesn’t give a hoot about them and has now effectively abandoned the club having mismanaged it so severely that liquidation is a possibility.
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Any apologists for Mel Morris please note the above. The human angle is more compelling than his portrayal as a TB-esque good guy.
 


Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,632
Easy 10 said:
Wycombe were EXTREMELY fortunate to get their season in the Championship - they benefited from the 2019/20 L1 season ending a dozen or so games early, with their "calculated projected points" (from games that were never played) catapulting them from midtable up into to 3rd place, above FIVE teams who had finished with a better points tally and GD than them, nudging what was at the time the 6th placed team, Peterborough, out of the Playoff picture.

They then went up via the playoffs (which they had not earned), and performed exactly as you'd expect a midtable L1 team to perform in the Championship, finishing in the bottom 3 with 43 points from 46 games. The notion that they've been 'cheated' by Derby is highly questionable, being as they shouldn't have even been in that division in the first place.
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I take your point but - in my view - Derby cheated and Wycombe were the team that ultimately got relegated because of that cheating. If it wasn't Wycombe it would have been someone else in their place. It certainly doesn't make what Derby did any better than if - say - Peterborough - had been the victim. I don't blame Wycombe for going down the legal route - they have nothing to lose by doing so.

I do think that the chairmen of clubs like Derby and Reading have taken outrageous financial risks and been reckless with their clubs finances, but the level of wages means you have to gamble to compete with the parachute payments yo-yo clubs.

Tony Bloom gambled hugely but at least he was doing it with his own money and was prepared to lose that money in the process. Even then, under FFP I believe we had the capability of 3 shots at promotion and landed it at the second attempt. Now there are a clutch of these yo-yo clubs with the stable Balance Sheet who are streets ahead of your Derbys, Forests, Readings, Sheff Wed, Sunderland, Ipswich and all those other fallen giants.
 








S

Springal

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2005
23,917
GOSBTS
Pavilionaire said:
Tony Bloom gambled hugely but at least he was doing it with his own money and was prepared to lose that money in the process. Even then, under FFP I believe we had the capability of 3 shots at promotion and landed it at the second attempt. Now there are a clutch of these yo-yo clubs with the stable Balance Sheet who are streets ahead of your Derbys, Forests, Readings, Sheff Wed, Sunderland, Ipswich and all those other fallen giants.
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Mel Morris was doing it with his own money, and was happy writing cheques - until he did not want to any more. If Tony Bloom had to / decided to do so then we would be in real trouble as well I guess
 


jcdenton08

jcdenton08

Enemy of the People
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Oct 17, 2008
10,748
Reading their forum, they ARE STILL blaming the EFL.
 


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