[Football] Denis Law and dementia

Cheshire Cat · Aug 19, 2021

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...egend-denis-law-diagnosed-with-mixed-dementia

“I am at the point where I feel I want to be open about my condition,” Law said in a statement. “I have been diagnosed with ‘mixed dementia’, which is more than one type of dementia, in my case this being Alzheimer’s and vascular dementia.

“This has been an extremely difficult year for everyone and the long periods of isolation have certainly not helped. It is an incredibly challenging and problematic disease and I have witnessed many friends go through this.

“You hope that it won’t happen to you, even make jokes about it whilst ignoring the early signs because you don’t want it to be true. You get angry, frustrated, confused and then worried. Worried for your family, as they will be the ones dealing with it.

“However the time has come to tackle this head on, excuse the pun. I recognise how my brain is deteriorating and how my memory evades me when I don’t want it to and how this causes me distress in situations that are beyond my control.

“I do understand what is happening and that is why I want to address my situation now whilst I am able, because I know there will be days when I don’t understand and I hate the thought of that right now. In the height of the pandemic I said I hoped that if one positive was to come out of it, it would be that it would make people kinder to each other, so that’s what I am hoping for now.”

:down:

Nobby Cybergoat · Aug 19, 2021

Cheshire Cat said:
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...egend-denis-law-diagnosed-with-mixed-dementia

“I am at the point where I feel I want to be open about my condition,” Law said in a statement. “I have been diagnosed with ‘mixed dementia’, which is more than one type of dementia, in my case this being Alzheimer’s and vascular dementia.

“This has been an extremely difficult year for everyone and the long periods of isolation have certainly not helped. It is an incredibly challenging and problematic disease and I have witnessed many friends go through this.

“You hope that it won’t happen to you, even make jokes about it whilst ignoring the early signs because you don’t want it to be true. You get angry, frustrated, confused and then worried. Worried for your family, as they will be the ones dealing with it.

“However the time has come to tackle this head on, excuse the pun. I recognise how my brain is deteriorating and how my memory evades me when I don’t want it to and how this causes me distress in situations that are beyond my control.

“I do understand what is happening and that is why I want to address my situation now whilst I am able, because I know there will be days when I don’t understand and I hate the thought of that right now. In the height of the pandemic I said I hoped that if one positive was to come out of it, it would be that it would make people kinder to each other, so that’s what I am hoping for now.”

Sickening.

The number of ex players of that era who've had this terrible illness is very high

BN41Albion · Aug 19, 2021

Nobby Cybergoat said:
Sickening.

The number of ex players of that era who've had this terrible illness is very high

I wonder/worry about the future too though. Balls are different now, but I read a while back that they're not actually lighter, not significantly at least, and that the game is played at a far quicker pace with the ball moving much quicker too

Lenny Rider · Aug 19, 2021

Very sad news, but not isolated, I do wonder if these cases will end up in the courts?

With the greatest of respect I'd imagine Jeff Astle's family probably didn't have the financial wherewithal to take their case as far as they would have liked, Sir Bobby Charlton however, probably does have sufficient funds to go all the way, and if he were to win a claim would that see a deluge of new cases?

Sadly Gerd Muller died as a result of dementia, given his prolific scoring record you wonder how many heavy balls he headed in his career?

timbha · Aug 19, 2021

Lenny Rider said:
Very sad news, but not isolated, I do wonder if these cases will end up in the courts?

With the greatest of respect I'd imagine Jeff Astle's family probably didn't have the financial wherewithal to take their case as far as they would have liked, Sir Bobby Charlton however, probably does have sufficient funds to go all the way, and if he were to win a claim would that see a deluge of new cases?

Sadly Gerd Muller died as a result of dementia, given his prolific scoring record you wonder how many heavy balls he headed in his career?

Not sure all the victims will want to go to court, sue, apportion blame etc. No one did anything wrong intentionally. But we need to learn and stop it happening again.

Nobby Cybergoat · Aug 19, 2021

timbha said:
Not sure all the victims will want to go to court, sue, apportion blame etc. No one did anything wrong intentionally. But we need to learn and stop it happening again.

True, but you can be sure that ambulance chasing lawyers will be haranguing the families at every opportunity, dangling the carrot of millions of pounds from the football authorities

Icy Gull · Aug 19, 2021

Lenny Rider said:
Very sad news, but not isolated, I do wonder if these cases will end up in the courts?

With the greatest of respect I'd imagine Jeff Astle's family probably didn't have the financial wherewithal to take their case as far as they would have liked, Sir Bobby Charlton however, probably does have sufficient funds to go all the way, and if he were to win a claim would that see a deluge of new cases?

Sadly Gerd Muller died as a result of dementia, given his prolific scoring record you wonder how many heavy balls he headed in his career?

Who are you wanting them to sue? Making football authorities or clubs responsible when they were not aware of the long term risks 40 years ago is likely to be very difficult to achieve imo, but I'm no lawyer

Nobby Cybergoat · Aug 19, 2021

BN41Albion said:
I wonder/worry about the future too though. Balls are different now, but I read a while back that they're not actually lighter, not significantly at least, and that the game is played at a far quicker pace with the ball moving much quicker too

I worry too.

One of the things that gives me some cause for hope is that better pitches means that the ball is on the ground more. I also think that while the weight is the same, the old style balls got heavier when wet

Having said that. My 9 year old took on a massive defensive header of a ball coming out the sky at the weekend, I properly winced.

Nobby Cybergoat · Aug 19, 2021

Icy Gull said:
Who are you wanting them to sue? Making football authorities or clubs responsible when they were not aware of the long term risks 40 years ago is likely to be very difficult to achieve imo, but I'm no lawyer

You'd imagine that if there was a large class action, the FA would have to settle to mitigate the risk of losing, which would likely send the organisation under.

PILTDOWN MAN · Aug 19, 2021

Horrible disease but we can't all jump on the assumption that all dementia in footballers is caused by playing the game.

Gwylan · Aug 19, 2021

Nobby Cybergoat said:
You'd imagine that if there was a large class action, the FA would have to settle to mitigate the risk of losing, which would likely send the organisation under.

I'm not a lawyer but I imagine Law and Charlton would have little chance of winning such a case. Back in the 50s and60s, there was no medical evidence linking dementia to heading footballs. Anyone who has at school at the time will remember being taught how to head them (and how painful it was if you headed the lace!), schools have a rigid duty of care and there's no way that we'd have done that if teachers knew the risk. For a court case to win, the plaintiffs would have to prove that the FA had suppressed medical research.

Having said that, it's gutting to hear what's happened to Law. More than any other player I've seen, he captured the sheer joy of football. Watching him score a goal was watching a kid poke the balls between the two rolled-up jumpers - he never lost that enthusiasm

(apart from when he scored the goal that relegated United, I don't think I'd someone so unhappy to score before)

Poyningsgull · Aug 19, 2021

Nobby Cybergoat said:
Sickening.

The number of ex players of that era who've had this terrible illness is very high

Is there any clear evidence that it is any higher than in the general population.
High profile cases doesn't necessarily equate to greater numbers.

BN41Albion · Aug 19, 2021

Nobby Cybergoat said:
I worry too.

One of the things that gives me some cause for hope is that better pitches means that the ball is on the ground more. I also think that while the weight is the same, the old style balls got heavier when wet

Having said that. My 9 year old took on a massive defensive header of a ball coming out the sky at the weekend, I properly winced.

I played centre half/full back all my half decent amateur career until a few years ago (knocking on 40 now) and the amount of times I must've headed the ball out of the sky from an oppo goal kick worries me somewhat. As well as clashes of heads/heading away from corners etc. :down:

But in terms of the professional game, yeah hopefully the ball being played on the ground more and the ball not being heavier when wet will make a difference.

Swansman · Aug 19, 2021

Poyningsgull said:
Is there any clear evidence that it is any higher than in the general population.
High profile cases doesn't necessarily equate to greater numbers.

Yes.

No clear evidence on what the reason is though. Sure, headers could probably be the reason but since footballers generally live a bit different lives there could be other reasons (food, daily intense training and perhaps not doing that much brain exercise) as well.

BN41Albion · Aug 19, 2021

PILTDOWN MAN said:
Horrible disease but we can't all jump on the assumption that all dementia in footballers is caused by playing the game.

Very true.
Whilst it's sad to hear, he is also 81, which is already 3 years above average life expectancy for men in the UK.

Nobby Cybergoat · Aug 19, 2021

BN41Albion said:
I played centre half/full back all my half decent amateur career until a few years ago (knocking on 40 now) and the amount of times I must've headed the ball out of the sky from an oppo goal kick worries me somewhat. As well as clashes of heads/heading away from corners etc.

But in terms of the professional game, yeah hopefully the ball being played on the ground more and the ball not being heavier when wet will make a difference.

I'm the same. I competed for a tonne of headers. I'm sure many of us did. But I distinctly remember a game I used to play with my mates as a teenager, which was to boot it as high as we could and see who was brave enough to head it. It seemed a great laugh at the time

Poyningsgull · Aug 19, 2021

Swansman said:
Yes.

No clear evidence on what the reason is though. Sure, headers could probably be the reason but since footballers generally live a bit different lives there could be other reasons (food, daily intense training and perhaps not doing that much brain exercise) as well.

A quick Google tells me that pro footballers are 3.5 times more likely to develop it. So I stand corrected.

BN41Albion · Aug 19, 2021

Nobby Cybergoat said:
I'm the same. I competed for a tonne of headers. I'm sure many of us did. But I distinctly remember a game I used to play with my mates as a teenager, which was to boot it as high as we could and see who was brave enough to head it. It seemed a great laugh at the time

You don't care about these things until a bit older eh. I wince now thinking of the times I mis-timed a header from an oppo goal kick etc over the years and it came off the top of my head - remember feeling dizzy a few times for a bit but shaking it off as you did.

Nobby Cybergoat · Aug 19, 2021

BN41Albion said:
You don't care about these things until a bit older eh. I wince now thinking of the times I mis-timed a header from an oppo goal kick etc over the years and it came off the top of my head - remember feeling dizzy a few times for a bit but shaking it off as you did.

Ha, when the ball is coming down with snow on it and you have your mates either side of you shouting "let's have a winner", and there's a striker who's run round you a couple of times backing into you, you're not thinking what will be happening in 50 years

Tom Hark Preston Park · Aug 19, 2021

Anyone know the comparative weight of a regulation size 5 match ball from the 60's or 70s against a current matchball? Weight differential must be immense. The ball's from that era, the ones with the untreated leather and the threaded laces, used to soak up and retain water to really quite stupid levels

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