beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,312
correct. the action to take is a leave note to the celebrant for future reference.
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Some people need to take a chill pill
- Thread starter Lenny Rider
- Start date
correct. the action to take is a leave note to the celebrant for future reference.
edited for you
nickbrighton
Well-known member
- Feb 19, 2016
- 1,927
This is one of those instances where at a very quick glance, it may appear as pc gone mad, its a woke thing, bloody snowflakes,etc
However with just a little thought put into it then there is more to it than that.
Whether some like it or not, we live in a world where non CIS gender identity is no longer hidden away as it once was- for a frame of reference think how being gay was viewed in the 1960-70s.
People identifying as being a non CIS Gender isn't something new, its just now more people are aware of it, and people are now more open about being non CIS, in the same way as there aren't more gay, lesbian or Bi people now, its just safer to acknowledge that than it was before
Now given the Celebrants profession, in which he deals with a lot of very emotional people on a daily basis, he presumably understands that very emotional people are in a very raw state and that by definition are possibly only just holding things together, and that it takes very little to cause even more pain and upset.
In a lot of instances most would have suffered in silence, not wanting to create a fuss, but on this occasion the person didn't. Given that it was a funeral then you have to think that the person was upset enough to speak to the officiate-and that takes guts and indicates that a high level of distress
So, wouldn't it be a good idea for the OP to take on board that he needs to re-evaluate his opening remarks and see if there is away he can amend them to encompass all who may be attending, without going down the Ladies, Gentlemen, Non Binary, and everything inbetween route which WILL cause offense to everyone.
If only there was a word or phrase that would cover all the people that are there. You know something like "Good Afternoon Everyone, thank you for coming to celebrate the life of........."
It wont cause offence to anyone, doesn't accidentally exclude anyone, and still sounds a perfectly natural way to start the service
However with just a little thought put into it then there is more to it than that.
Whether some like it or not, we live in a world where non CIS gender identity is no longer hidden away as it once was- for a frame of reference think how being gay was viewed in the 1960-70s.
People identifying as being a non CIS Gender isn't something new, its just now more people are aware of it, and people are now more open about being non CIS, in the same way as there aren't more gay, lesbian or Bi people now, its just safer to acknowledge that than it was before
Now given the Celebrants profession, in which he deals with a lot of very emotional people on a daily basis, he presumably understands that very emotional people are in a very raw state and that by definition are possibly only just holding things together, and that it takes very little to cause even more pain and upset.
In a lot of instances most would have suffered in silence, not wanting to create a fuss, but on this occasion the person didn't. Given that it was a funeral then you have to think that the person was upset enough to speak to the officiate-and that takes guts and indicates that a high level of distress
So, wouldn't it be a good idea for the OP to take on board that he needs to re-evaluate his opening remarks and see if there is away he can amend them to encompass all who may be attending, without going down the Ladies, Gentlemen, Non Binary, and everything inbetween route which WILL cause offense to everyone.
If only there was a word or phrase that would cover all the people that are there. You know something like "Good Afternoon Everyone, thank you for coming to celebrate the life of........."
It wont cause offence to anyone, doesn't accidentally exclude anyone, and still sounds a perfectly natural way to start the service
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I totally agree with you and you shouldn’t now feel the need to apologise or justify your original post. The non-binary person was bang out of order to choose that moment to make a point about something which will have happened to them routinely in all walks of life. Yes that must be frustrating but there’s a time and a place to push back and a funeral is not that. It reeks of attention seeking of the worst kind. You were spot on to raise this as an irritation.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 25,865
Sounds to me like one of these woke, lefty snowflake terms that people insist on using these days (particularly in places like Brighton). Back in my day we had Vicars
I have to say I'm quite surprised at the OP indulging in this sort of thing
nickbrighton
Well-known member
- Feb 19, 2016
- 1,927
I would also add, the OP doesn't say that a scene was created, but that AFTER the service was over they approached the Celebrant and spoke to him. He doesn't say it was in hearing of the family (for all we know the person WAS family)
It may well be that the person was doing exactly the right thing, informing the Celebrant that actually he may want to be more aware in future- and prevent any one else feeling excluded.
It may well be that the person was doing exactly the right thing, informing the Celebrant that actually he may want to be more aware in future- and prevent any one else feeling excluded.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
I would have thought it was inappropriate for a funeral director to repeat something that happened at a crematorium, on a public football forum. Doesn’t confidentiality come into it?
maltaseagull
Well-known member
It's a funeral and not about transgender rights. More about the life of the deceased.
mejonaNO12 aka riskit
Well-known member
Boooooooooooooooooooo
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Blimey, even doing a speech at a wedding a decade ago I used "ladies, gentlemen and distinguished guests". Not hard is it really. You know, to keep up.
Cowfold Seagull
Fan of the 17 bus
Bearing in mind who the poster was, l think l'll choose to believe him.
nickbrighton
Well-known member
- Feb 19, 2016
- 1,927
I may be being whooooooshed here, but of all the possible responses to my post that you could have written , agreeing, disagreeing, or on the fence, can I ask why you chose this?
Im not sure it furthers the discussion in any helpful way
Greg Bobkin
Silver Seagull
- May 22, 2012
- 14,852
To be fair, there are far more important things to get 'upset' about than a comment from non-binary person who was upset at a funeral.
Take the feedback – albeit apparently delivered rather bluntly – and change 'Ladies and Gentlemen' to 'everybody'. Problem solved
I know. But I’d personally consider the fact it’s a funeral, people get upset, emotions are high, and make an allowance for this. I certainly wouldn’t take to social media to mock the person.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 25,865
I believe it's a humorous post using sarcasm about people boooing anything they feel is in anyway supportive of modern society or, dare I say it 'woke' (see taking of knee). I believe it's supportive of your point
Picture the scene, Worthing Crematorium post lockdown, attendance restrictions lifted, and one of my favourite funeral celebrants opens our service with,
"Good afternoon Lades and Gentleman, and thank you for attending this service of celebration for the late...…"
After the service has finished, an individual approached the Celebrant and said "I was deeply offended by the term Ladies and Gentleman as I'm non binary and don't identify as either"
Some people need to get out more
So glad I was born in the early Sixties. Times were different then, a lot of things needed to change, for the betterment of society, but I fear we're now catering for the minorities at ignoring the majority. Life should be reasonably simple, we're making it so difficult people will just retreat in fear and society will become very bland.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,312
fair comment.
think the problem is people forget just because they have taken offense doesnt mean any offense was meant, intended or implied. its not ok to always assume someone taking offense is right, that their view or expression of views transends all others.