[News] Use of pronouns……

dazzer6666 · Jul 27, 2021

Bear Pit in 10 minute perhaps, but seems this is becoming more and more common (seen quite a few using them on LinkedIn for example)

Extract from the DT

Thousands of civil servants are to be encouraged to add pronouns to their email sign-offs under plans for a transgender inclusivity drive, despite a backlash from staff.

The Scottish Government is backing proposals that would ask its 8,000 workers to take a “pronoun pledge” under which they would add terms reflecting their gender identity, such as she/her or he/him, to signatures at the bottom of every work email.

Some people who class themselves as non-binary prefer pronouns such as they/them, while others prefer “non standard” terms such as “zie” or “zir”, which civil servants would be free to use.

Supporters of the plan to “normalise the inclusion” of pronouns have said this would “foster an open culture that is supportive of the LGBTI+ community”.

However, the plan has provoked opposition from civil servants, after an internal survey set up to gauge opinion provoked a row which left some workers in tears.

Driver8 · Jul 27, 2021

Fine if it’s important to you and there is likely to be some confusion but don’t expect everyone to do it.

Jim in the West · Jul 27, 2021

If you think it's the right thing to do - then do it - Great to show solidarity with the LGBTI+ community. I've had my pronouns on my LinkedIn profile for some time.

But if you don't want to do it, then (imho) you should be free not to. Hopefully the Scottish Government isn't going to be over-zealous in it's "encouragement".

GingerBeerMan · Jul 27, 2021

Why don't we just assume he/him or she/her is the default and then allow people to add different pronouns if they wish?

Sid in the Sharknado · Jul 27, 2021

We had an email go around my office several months ago asking us to add this, the logic as I understand it being to normalise it so that transgender people don't spend half their time being asked why they have their pronouns on their email signature or explaining why.

A decent proportion of people have them. After about 6months of (genuinely) nobody mentioning it, I finally got around to spending all of 20seconds adding them last week.

m@goo · Jul 27, 2021

To my mind anyone opposed to it or just fed up with "woke culture" (when it generally doesn't affect them) is probably just a bit scared of change.

I guess most of us here are males born into the right body but imagine if everyone called you her or she when you know in your mind you're a him/he.

Blue Valkyrie · Jul 27, 2021

Well if you don't tell people how you want *them* to address you then you can hardly complain when *they* get it "wrong".

As for getting told to do it - well if they are paying me then it's a fairly painless waste of a minute of their time.

:shrug:

ConfusedGloryHunter · Jul 27, 2021

I don't have a problem with adding pronouns. I do however role my eyes every time someone in marketing tells us to change our email signatures. So I'm on the fence with this one :moo:

beorhthelm · Jul 27, 2021

for years i have corresponded with non-English/western people. can be tricky knowing if they are he/she, and some names are unisex. just avoid the pronoun until known, or relevant, which is not often in indirect, email communication. use a name in discussion and the pronoun is not needed, or "they" covers. so why does anyone now have to make efforts to be inclusive for such a tiny, tiny minority? or to put it another way not knowing someone's pronoun hasnt been an issue, why is it now?

Da Man Clay · Jul 27, 2021

Can’t say I’ll lose any sleep about doing that. If it makes a few people feel more comfortable with absolutely zero effect on me then so be it.

Superphil · Jul 27, 2021

Is "bloke/chap" acceptable?

The Clamp · Jul 27, 2021

They do it at my work. Only one person has chosen they/them/theirs. It was a talking point for about two minutes. It rarely comes up and causes zero issues.
Let people live how they want to live. Perhaps even help them to do so every now and again.

dejavuatbtn · Jul 27, 2021

It’s just another opportunity to get it wrong and unleash the wolves.

The Clamp · Jul 27, 2021

beorhthelm said:
for years i have corresponded with non-English/western people. can be tricky knowing if they are he/she, and some names are unisex. just avoid the pronoun until known, or relevant, which is not often in indirect, email communication. use a name in discussion and the pronoun is not needed, or "they" covers. so why does anyone now have to make efforts to be inclusive for such a tiny, tiny minority? or to put it another way not knowing someone's pronoun hasnt been an issue, why is it now?

It hasn’t been an issue for you. It may have been to someone else.
Why make the effort? Because it’s a nice thing to make your colleagues feel at ease?
There could be an individual in your organisation who has been hoping this change would happen. Is potentially making someone you work with feel happy and empowered not worth a moment of your time?

The Clamp · Jul 27, 2021

dejavuatbtn said:
It’s just another opportunity to get it wrong and unleash the wolves.

Nobody will get grief if it’s a genuine mistake. And people do make mistakes. I have. I corrected myself and the day carried on as normal.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jul 27, 2021

beorhthelm said:
for years i have corresponded with non-English/western people. can be tricky knowing if they are he/she, and some names are unisex. just avoid the pronoun until known, or relevant, which is not often in indirect, email communication. use a name in discussion and the pronoun is not needed, or "they" covers. so why does anyone now have to make efforts to be inclusive for such a tiny, tiny minority? or to put it another way not knowing someone's pronoun hasnt been an issue, why is it now?

It is an issue now just like it was an issue, then, for other minorities and other contexts.

When I lived in Canada, most surveys asked about ethnicity. One group, from a small smattering of islands, wasn't included. The reason, apparently, was there were too few of them to constitute a minority.

So the question is how many of 'your sort' does it take before the rest of us have to think about your inclusion? It has to be one, doesn't it.

Still, something for the Mail readers to knit their tits over :shrug:

A1X · Jul 27, 2021

So people are unhappy because they're being asked to put a few extra characters of text on their email signature, which anyone who knows how Outlook works on an even basic level can setup to be put on there automatically?

Seems like some people just want to be furious without good reason.

The Clamp · Jul 27, 2021

A1X said:
So people are unhappy because they're being asked to put a few extra characters of text on their email signature, which anyone who knows how Outlook works on an even basic level can setup to be put on there automatically?

Seems like some people just want to be furious without good reason.

Ironically, those against such positive changes are in the minority

BBassic · Jul 27, 2021

I tend to think of this as similar to when you meet someone, for instance, called Steven and you call them Stevie. At this point he says "no it's Steven" and you go "Oh, my mistake, sorry Steven".

Rather than "F**k off Stevie, I'll call you what I like".

Which is a roundabout way of saying: if someone prefers they / them / their etc etc. then just don't be an arse about it, do the decent thing and respect their choice.

PeterOut · Jul 27, 2021

I work in an organisation of 20K+. Inevitably, I end up in email conversations with many people who I have not met in person.

If they sign off an email with best wishes / kind regards / or similar followed by Pat, Sam, Chris - it's often helpful to understand whether that person is / identifies as a he or she (or anything else). On many other occasions, it matters not one jot, to either of us.

As many have said above, it is hardly a big effort to add a line to your email signature. TBH, I have more of an issue with people who use hugely inflated terms to describe a bang-average job role as part of their email signature (yes, I know, we have had one more than one amusing thread on that topic in the past).

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