[Other Sport] Lions tour of South Africa

LamieRobertson said:

Couldn’t see a thread …now the Euros are out the way …currently playing South Africa A (live on Sky) losing but fighting back

No crowds..but still looking forward to the Tests

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KZNSeagull said:

If they happen. KZN and Joburg are being looted and burnt. There is almost nothing left of the shops in 2 of the places that I used to live. It looks like a warzone

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KZNSeagull said:

If they happen. KZN and Joburg are being looted and burnt. There is almost nothing left of the shops in 2 of the places that I used to live. It looks like a warzone

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Guinness Boy said:

I can't imagine that'll stop the rugger but it's shocking how this has gone under the radar.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-57818215

In KwaZulu-Natal - where livestock has also been stolen - the unrest continues with ambulances coming under attack by rioters in some areas

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KZNSeagull said:

I am afraid that this is just the start. There are already food shortages in areas that have been looted and when I say looted, the shops have been wiped out. Completely. So soon the looters will have no food, so what are they going to do next? Most of the shops they have trashed will not re-open, so that is a load of jobs gone as well. It's a disaster and very worrying for family and friends still there. I have not heard from any of the Zulu friends I have there, but I am hoping that is just because the mobile phone masts have been looted too.

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zuidgull said:

I write this from Hilton in the KZN Midlands (and jusr outside of Pietermaritzburg) where things area little calmer tonight and last night than earlier in the week.

Certainly here Vodacom network seems to be down which I am sure is impacting your friends ability to keep in touch.

The town has been blocked off to entry since Monday (mainly by locals and private security) which has so far avoided damage here but has been quite tense. The Army arrived in Howick (next town up) yesterday and Pietermaritzburg today but as per article deployment seemed very slow and sub scale compared to hard COVID lockdown.

Everything in the town us shut and no fuel available and between my wife and I took 4 hours to restock some food items today which mainly came direct from farms in the local area.

So not been a great week but does now finally seem to be coming under control although suspect will be several weeks to get supply chains back up and running and much longer to repair damage partucularly in Durban and PMB.

Sure rugby will continue though!

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Guinness Boy said:

I can't imagine that'll stop the rugger but it's shocking how this has gone under the radar.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-57818215

In KwaZulu-Natal - where livestock has also been stolen - the unrest continues with ambulances coming under attack by rioters in some areas

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zuidgull said:

Before hopefully allowing this thread to return to the rugby ans as things are quietening down.
Maybe I can share this as the simpliest explanation I have read. Apparently, this is from Clem Sunter (a scenario planner and strategist whose influential ideas in the 1980s played into apartheid South Africa opting for the High Road of political settlement, rather than the Low Road of confrontation and civil war):

“Dear friends,

Many of you outside of South Africa are wondering what is really going on. So here is a very simple outline. The thing is obviously far more complex and nuanced than can be set out in a brief note but this will give you some picture of what is really happening.

Following the 1994 democratic elections in South Africa, South Africa did really well economically until about 2008. That was also the year that Jacob Zuma was elected president of the ANC. At that point in time, some of us had a sense of disquiet already. But little did any of us understand then the extent of the corruption and weakening of government institutions that would follow. We have no clear idea of the extent of what was stolen during the Jacob Zuma years, other than that it is a stupendous sum of money which this country certainly cannot afford. Eventually however the internal tide within the ANC started to slowly turn against Jacob Zuma. On 18 December 2017 Cyril Ramaphosa was elected as the president of the ANC (and also subsequently became the president of South Africa). But it was a very narrow margin of victory.

The thing about Cyril Ramaphosa is that he is fundamentally a principled man. And certainly, determined to clean up the history of corruption we have seen since 2008. Various steps have been taken by him and the ANC under his guidance to give effect to this. One of the things that was done was to establish a commission chaired by Raymond Zondo, who is the Deputy Chief Justice of South Africa. The purpose of this commission was to investigate the corruption issues and to expose them to the light of day.

Jacob Zuma was required to appear in front of the commission. He effectively refused to do so. He was ordered by the Constitutional Court to do so. He defied the order of the Constitutional Court. The Constitutional Court in turn ordered his imprisonment for a period of 15 months for contempt of court. This, whatever you call it, is fundamentally the rule of law in action.

Initially there was resistance to imprisonment by Jacob Zuma and his supporters. A week ago, however Jacob Zuma submitted himself to imprisonment. And then all hell broke loose.

What you need to understand is that Jacob Zuma has his powerbase in KwaZulu Natal, where the riots have been at their worst. This is also, as the name will tell you, the home territory of the Zulu nation. And Jacob Zuma is a prominent figure in the Zulu nation. Within the Jacob Zuma camp, individuals set about instigating the so-called protests, riots and looting that you have seen in the media. To a significant extent they leveraged the problems of poverty and inequality in South Africa to achieve their ends. Very often in this country we have areas where many very poor people are resident adjacent to commercial complexes. This was an ideal combination to exploit. In addition to that there are the existing fissures along race lines that exist in our society which were also available to leverage. Audio files doing the rounds encouraged people to attack and destroy what are perceived to be white and white owned businesses. In the end though, many black businesspeople also suffered considerable losses.

The gameplan was to create a situation which would force the hand of the current government. Ideally, it would result in an overreaction by the security forces, with the result that many of the poor and vulnerable would be killed (which is what happened at Marikana a few years back). If that occurred, it would likely force the resignation or removal of Cyril Ramaphosa as president. Meaning the Jacob Zuma camp would have achieved their objective. This is one reason why the security forces have been so careful not to use excessive force in dealing with the riots and the looters.

While there is still a lot of instability in KwaZulu Natal and certain pockets in Gauteng, what is now starting to emerge quite clearly is that the gambit by the Jacob Zuma camp has failed. South African society of all walks has turned its face against this insurrection. In effect, an attempted coup has failed.

South Africans are a strange nation in many ways. They argue and fight amongst themselves but when pushed to the edge, they always pull together for the common good. This has happened again and again over the decades.

This has been perhaps a necessary test of our democracy and of the rule of law. Make no mistake but that South Africa has many very real challenges. But South Africa will pass through this and will put the locust years behind it.”

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Razzoo said:

Interesting. Do the Zulu people turn a blind eye to the corruption or did Zuma see that his people were looked after and so they weren't bothered about the corruption as long as they were looked after. They sound fiercely loyal to him.

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KZNSeagull said:

Some are loyal as they have been well looked after. Others are bought, many are coerced. When I was there the ANC would be voted in in national and local elections, but the locals would still protest, often violently that things were not changing. Things would then calm down on the back of promises that usually did not materialise. The threat of violence was ever present though ie vote for me or I will burn your house down etc. But the real scandal is how Zuma and his cronies took millions if not billions of Rands out of the hands of the people they were supposed to be helping to feather their own nests.

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Razzoo said:

I would imagine that Mandela will be turning in his grave at all this trouble.

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