[Misc] And just when you thought our judicial system couldn't get any worse.......

Spiros · Jul 13, 2021

If he's done his time according to the sentence handed out then by all means let him out. However he should simply be shown the door of HMP, not given a free house and a new identity. He wasn't a juvenile when he committed those crimes, he was a fully grown adult. His 'life sentence' should be that everyone knows who he is, what he did and where he is. If that brings consequences then so be it

schmunk · Jul 13, 2021

Spiros said:
If that brings consequences then so be it

To make a criminal out of somebody else?

Eeyore · Jul 13, 2021

Psychobilly freakout said:
at a cost of millions, for that reason I am death sentence for crimes like this, proved beyond all doubt.
Spend that money wasted on keeping him alive on people who can be rehabilitated.

Even taking that in isolation, it would cost more to enact a death sentence than life imprisonment.

In 2019, the cost per prisoner per year was £26,000. Say they are in 40 years till death as an average (it's probably less)- that's £1.4m

A proper appeals process in a death sentence would run to a lot more than that.

Justice · Jul 13, 2021

The parolee is entitled to legal representation at the hearing the judge’s can’t just do what they may want to do. I believe in this case and cases like it life should be life obviously.

brightn'ove · Jul 13, 2021

Nobody seems to have pointed this out but ... you are criticising the justice system as it existed 33 years ago. The one that exists now is formed and bound by the decisions of those before it.

vagabond · Jul 13, 2021

TugWilson said:
But you can get behind the possibility of him giving some innocent young girl a death sentence ? . Take him and others like him round the back put a bullet in his head and let God sort him out .

Absolutely not. So you’re in favour of the death sentence then.

That’s your prerogative, which you’re entitled to, but it’s not something I can favour. So either the guy spends the rest of his days behind bars, or when he’s served his sentence and has shown proven measurements of rehabilitation he’s assessed and released accordingly.

It’s a complex, emotive subject, but it does ultimately boil down to whether you ascribe to the concept of rehabilitation or not.

bha100 · Jul 13, 2021

Psychobilly freakout said:
at a cost of millions, for that reason I am death sentence for crimes like this, proved beyond all doubt.
Spend that money wasted on keeping him alive on people who can be rehabilitated.

I was of the same opinion regarding capital punishment until i watched an episode of hardtalk back in 2014 and it changed my mind.

Don't think the full episode is available but you can get a flavour of why here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26273051

TugWilson · Jul 13, 2021

vagabond said:
Absolutely not. So you’re in favour of the death sentence then.

That’s your prerogative, which you’re entitled to, but it’s not something I can favour. So either the guy spends the rest of his days behind bars, or when he’s served his sentence and has shown proven measurements of rehabilitation he’s assessed and released accordingly.

It’s a complex, emotive subject, but it does ultimately boil down to whether you ascribe to the concept of rehabilitation or not.

No i`m not in favour of the death penalty , i would merely prefer that option to letting this animal free to possibly kill again . I think we have to ask ourselves if we would trust this animal near our daughters / granddaughters and if the answer is NO then the alternative is obvious , life imprisonment with NO parole . All such offenders should also never see the light of day again , this country puts more into protecting the perpetrator than the victim .

I do believe in rehabilitation for most crimes , but not premeditated murder or sexual offences , the price if you get it wrong is just too high . As with this creep he committed his crimes over a few years indicating the possibility of a repeat offender should he be released , i will refer you to the fable of "The Frog and the Scorpion".

dsr-burnley · Jul 13, 2021

vagabond said:
... when he’s served his sentence and has shown proven measurements of rehabilitation ...

How can there be proof of rehabilitation? There is no way to look into his mind and know that he has no intention of raping and murdering any more schoolgirls. All the parole board can go off is the views of their experts and the reaction to what those experts believe - but remember he has had 30-odd years to practice deceiving the experts. We do not know if Pitchfork wants to kill again. If there is only 1 in 100 chance that he wants to kill again, that is far too high to risk letting him out.

Baldseagull · Jul 13, 2021

essbee1 said:
I often wonder what happens when these people are let out. New identity etc, etc, obviously, but you can't just bung someone into a village, town,
city etc and expect them to fit in without suspicion. Or maybe you can.

In this case, he will have to live at a designated address, wear an electronic tag, undergo regular polygraph lie detector tests to confirm he has not broken any of his conditions, and disclose what vehicles he uses and to whom he speaks, with particular limits on contact with children. These are the conditions of his licence for the rest of his life, and any breach would see him returned to prison.

He had his 30 year minimum term reduced to 28 a few years ago on appeal, and was granted because he has been a model prisoner, but he was been denied Parole on at least 2 previous occasions since then.
Personally, I think the standard that I would have for proving genuine remorse for the crimes that he committed, would be to have strung himself up. However, he has served more than his minimum rec, the parole board have had their judgement reviewed, and they have placed strict conditions on his freedom.

Baldseagull · Jul 13, 2021

dsr-burnley said:
How can there be proof of rehabilitation? There is no way to look into his mind and know that he has no intention of raping and murdering any more schoolgirls. All the parole board can go off is the views of their experts and the reaction to what those experts believe - but remember he has had 30-odd years to practice deceiving the experts. We do not know if Pitchfork wants to kill again. If there is only 1 in 100 chance that he wants to kill again, that is far too high to risk letting him out.

On average, one in 200 prisoners released on licence commit a serious offence whilst on licence.

Baldseagull · Jul 13, 2021

TugWilson said:
No i`m not in favour of the death penalty , i would merely prefer that option to letting this animal free to possibly kill again . I think we have to ask ourselves if we would trust this animal near our daughters / granddaughters and if the answer is NO then the alternative is obvious , life imprisonment with NO parole . All such offenders should also never see the light of day again , this country puts more into protecting the perpetrator than the victim .

I do believe in rehabilitation for most crimes , but not premeditated murder or sexual offences , the price if you get it wrong is just too high . As with this creep he committed his crimes over a few years indicating the possibility of a repeat offender should he be released , i will refer you to the fable of "The Frog and the Scorpion".

You can't say you are not in favour of the death penalty, and then say it is preferable to releasing a prisoner on licence. For me, you cannot say it is a crime for any member of society to kill anyone, no matter what wrong they have done, and then kill people as the punishment.
I do struggle though, with how any person committing crimes such as his, and being able to live with themselves, can truly be remorseful and understand the ********* of what they have done.

I could not find the right word for **********

TugWilson · Jul 13, 2021

Baldseagull said:
You can't say you are not in favour of the death penalty, and then say it is preferable to releasing a prisoner on licence. For me, you cannot say it is a crime for any member of society to kill anyone, no matter what wrong they have done, and then kill people as the punishment.
I do struggle though, with how any person committing crimes such as his, and being able to live with themselves, can truly be remorseful and understand the ********* of what they have done.

I could not find the right word for **********

Yes poorly worded by me , we are talking about one specific person and as such i was pointing out that it would be far preferable for him to depart this world than another 15 year old who has their whole life ahead of themselves and may well achieve great things , whereas this pos has only proven he can defile and destroy . No Brainer ...

Your word ********* could be many things , but a good one might be destruction .

Highfields Seagull · Jul 13, 2021

Whatever your opinions on the case, what has happened is not because of the judiciary. Whenever something like this is in the news, politicians and the press (particularly of the right leaning persuasion) go for 'woolly liberal lefty judges'. Judges don't make the laws, they simply ensure they are implemented. Sentencing etc is for Parliament to decide (i.e. the very politicians who are happy to lay into the judiciary).

It's like all the rubbish Johnson and Patel throw at judges on immigration rulings. It is their fault they lose these cases - they make the laws then don't stick to them. If they want different rulings, make different laws.

Weststander · Sep 24, 2021

Felt compelled to post this, avoid the weblink if you don’t want to know.

Incredibly upsetting.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-58675975
Five week old Sean Clark, look at that beautiful face and those lovely eyes, died with 71 rib fractures and coughing up blood from assaults carried out throughout his short life.

He deserved kind parents to protect him.

It won’t bring him back, but I hope the murdering piece of shit suffers.

The Clamp · Sep 24, 2021

Someone who rapes and kills children will do it again. There is no rehabilitating people like this. Throw them into an oubliette and forget they ever existed.

I’m not in favour of the death penalty but I’m in favour of putting them somewhere they are unlikely to survive.

drew · Sep 24, 2021

Weststander said:
Felt compelled to post this, avoid the weblink if you don’t want to know.

Incredibly upsetting.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-58675975
Five week old Sean Clark, look at that beautiful face and those lovely eyes, died with 71 rib fractures and coughing up blood from assaults carried out throughout his short life.

He deserved kind parents to protect him.

It won’t bring him back, but I hope the murdering piece of shit suffers.

Can't believe he has only got a minimum term of 15 years!

Brings back memories of the Baby P case.

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