[Football] England when it comes to the crunch

Pavilionaire · Jul 12, 2021

A passionate crowd behind England. Some Trippier magic, an early goal. But gradually the momentum begins to swing. The opposition equalise midway through the second half and then extra time heartbreak.

The stats paint a bleak picture. The opposition have 3 times as many shots on goal than us and a lot more possession, we only muster 2 shots on target in 2 hours of football.

We could have been braver, but lessons will be learned.

I am, of course, talking about losing to Croatia in the 2018 WC semi-final.

So how are we going to break this cycle?

Farehamseagull · Jul 12, 2021

We were too deep from the 5th minute, I said it to my other half at the time. Kane was our furthest advanced player but was only half way inside our own half for most of the game.

It’s naive management. Unfortunately, brilliant bloke and statesman that he is, all the while Southgate is in charge, we won’t break that cycle.

Cheeky Monkey · Jul 12, 2021

Think the Beeb said it’s Germany 7 titles, Italy 6 titles now. It just beggars belief that we have failed so consistently on the international stage for so long. Quite an achievement.

Bry Nylon · Jul 12, 2021

Difficult one with Kane tonight. He was in a battle all night but nothing was really coming off for him after the first 15 mins and then he just kind of shrunk into obscurity. The Italian defence really played a number on him tonight and we had very little outlet.

We lacked a leader out there, pulling us up the pitch as Kane leads by example when he's on his game but when he's anonymous we lack a striker and a leader. In a normal game you would have made a case for getting him off and trying another striker but I guess there's always that chance that he's always got a goal in him. But tonight he didn't look like scoring if he'd played all night.

Pavilionaire · Jul 12, 2021

Bry Nylon said:
Difficult one with Kane tonight. He was in a battle all night but nothing was really coming off for him after the first 15 mins and then he just kind of shrunk into obscurity. The Italian defence really played a number on him tonight and we had very little outlet.

We lacked a leader out there, pulling us up the pitch as Kane leads by example when he's on his game but when he's anonymous we lack a striker and a leader. In a normal game you would have made a case for getting him off and trying another striker but I guess there's always that chance that he's always got a goal in him. But tonight he didn't look like scoring if he'd played all night.

The Italians found a way to handle him, and Southgate didn't have any comeback.

hart's shirt · Jul 12, 2021

Pavilionaire said:
So how are we going to break this cycle?

Encourage our naturally defensive-minded manager to find a system that fully utilizes our current wealth of riches in attacking midfield?

Pavilionaire · Jul 12, 2021

hart's shirt said:
Encourage our naturally defensive-minded manager to find a system that fully utilizes our current wealth of riches in attacking midfield?

Who will provide that encouragement? Our FA - loving the results of his defensive fayre - said they wanted him for 6 more years midway through this tournament.

If Kane can't influence him - and he has attacking Spurs DNA in his veins - then who?

Bry Nylon · Jul 12, 2021

It will be interesting to see how things evolve, that's for sure. We have tried the pragmatic approach and just fallen short by the thinnest of margins. It seems unfathomable that Grealish and Fodden (I know he was injured for this fixture) will always be restricted to late cameos for the rest of their international careers, but maybe that is the way to advance in these competitions? As peope have said, Southgate picks the best team, not the best individual players and it nearly came off for him.

Not quite sure where we go from here but I would liberate Kane from the added burden of captain as well as supposed main goal threat. I think we need a stronger on-pitch personality to drag the team up when things are going against us. Very little leadership out there tonight and it showed as we gradually sucumbed to the Italian pressure.

Beach Hut · Jul 12, 2021

I think the key to success is having a world class midfielder, hopefully Foden will mature into that player

Bry Nylon · Jul 12, 2021

Beach Hut said:
I think the key to success is having a world class midfielder, hopefully Foden will mature into that player

How many minutes did he get in this tournamant across 7 matches? Can't have been many. Bet he wishes he hadn't bothered going for the Gazza hair now, just to pick up bibs and cones at the end of training with Ben White and Conor Coady.

Huge talent and has the potential for future England sides to be built around him.

Randy McNob · Jul 12, 2021

Beach Hut said:
I think the key to success is having a world class midfielder, hopefully Foden will mature into that player

we had Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard all at the same time

all they mustered was a quarter

raymondo · Jul 12, 2021

The only extra thing needed tonight was to get the penalty takers right, since that was what we appeared to be playing for since halftime. Southgate said they were based on training

. Well, I think we all know that bringing on two subs just to take pens is a poor idea, and as for putting that pressure on Saka (or for letting him put it on himself), shame on you Southgate. More experienced players should have stepped up (Shaw, Walker, Sterling, Grealish...) or been made to: 'if you're not prepared to take a pen I'll have to sub you at beginning of extra time'. With his famed man management skills, Southgate has failed to get his senior players to step up for pens

Beach Hut · Jul 12, 2021

Randy McNob said:
we had Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard all at the same time

all they mustered was a quarter

In a well known toxic anti player/media battle of wits that was no good to anyone.

At least Southgate has changed the culture which gives us all far more hope of success

rebel51 · Jul 12, 2021

I'm afraid bringing on Henderson was a massive calamity aswell

Jesus Gul · Jul 12, 2021

Kane was too passive and a lot of moves/possession coming from their defense. Probably in a minority here but DCL harassing the old guys at the back for the last 15 mins may have upset their rhythm a bit.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Jul 12, 2021

In effect we had 7 defensive players on the pitch and a centre forward who played very deep. Everyone did 'OK' but the Italians had better game management (sharing out the 6 yellow cards/ making the more telling substitutions) and all things considered we just looked a bit limited. There's the nagging feeling that we are not playing our best 11.
One tactical nuance I could quite get was why the keeper (who had a good game) kicked long every time - which usually resulted in giving the ball back to the opposition.

vegster · Jul 12, 2021

Pavilionaire said:
A passionate crowd behind England. Some Trippier magic, an early goal. But gradually the momentum begins to swing. The opposition equalise midway through the second half and then extra time heartbreak.

The stats paint a bleak picture. The opposition have 3 times as many shots on goal than us and a lot more possession, we only muster 2 shots on target in 2 hours of football.

We could have been braver, but lessons will be learned.

I am, of course, talking about losing to Croatia in the 2018 WC semi-final.

So how are we going to break this cycle?

We break the cycle by repeatedly building our hopes up after a few wins against the teams we should be beating, constantly re releasing Three Lions and mumbling " Its Coming Home "...then, lose and smash up anyone and anything that gets in the way.... And repeat.

zefarelly · Jul 12, 2021

Being pragmatic and getting to the final is an achievement over all others in my and many of our lifetimes. However, having got there the idea is to win it, early goal aside, that never really looked likely. The Italians had the measure of Kane and Stirling, Gsouth had nothing up his sleeve.

Nitram · Jul 12, 2021

Nothing’s going to change. We aim low by being set up not to be beaten, relying on stealing a goal on the counter attack. The lack of trust in gifted players who excel for their clubs for a play it safe approach will always be Southgate’s default setting.

All the cards fell right for Southgate, all the best teams in the other side of the draw, Germany on a downside, home advantage, never going to get that again. Like Croatia in the World Cup when it comes to it he shows a lack of courage.

Kalimantan Gull · Jul 12, 2021

Pavilionaire said:
A passionate crowd behind England. Some Trippier magic, an early goal. But gradually the momentum begins to swing. The opposition equalise midway through the second half and then extra time heartbreak.

The stats paint a bleak picture. The opposition have 3 times as many shots on goal than us and a lot more possession, we only muster 2 shots on target in 2 hours of football.

We could have been braver, but lessons will be learned.

I am, of course, talking about losing to Croatia in the 2018 WC semi-final.

So how are we going to break this cycle?

Break the cycle? My entire life our 'cycle' has been to get over excited about a tournament and then fail gnominiously. But now we've had a semi final and final in back to back tournaments. I would call that breaking a cycle, the goal posts don't have to be shifted quite so soon do they?

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