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[Albion] LATEST TV: Was Cloughie guilty of a hate crime?



L

Lenny Rider

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2010
5,441
Albion author Nic Outterside talks about his latest book Wet Socks and Dry Bones

Specifically featured in his chat with me are three Albion related tragic stories, Barrie Rees, Bobby Smith and Justin Fashanu.

Hope you enjoy it and don't forget to buy the book :bhasign:


https://youtu.be/DRLylwuiWI0
 




Eeyore

Eeyore

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Apr 5, 2014
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He wasn't guilty of a hate crime because no such thing existed. Clough's attitude was merely a reflection of the age. It's comforting to know that the players were seemingly wiser.

It's frustrating when these stories are told, but they can't be judged retrospectively, especially when some of those making such judgements would have been party to the problem at the time.

The tabloids are a classic example of the hypocrisy that surrounds the re-evaluation of history.

We live in different times. Sadly, that came too late for some. Folk can just resolve to be better than that.
 


L

Lenny Rider

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Sep 15, 2010
5,441
Brighton Lines said:
He wasn't guilty of a hate crime because no such thing existed. Clough's attitude was merely a reflection of the age. It's comforting to know that the players were seemingly wiser.

It's frustrating when these stories are told, but they can't be judged retrospectively, especially when some of those making such judgements would have been party to the problem at the time.

The tabloids are a classic example of the hypocrisy that surrounds the re-evaluation of history.

We live in different times. Sadly, that came too late for some. Folk can just resolve to be better than that.
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To be fair BL the question is almost rhetorical, they were different times, but that doesn’t retract from all three tragic tales.

If a drunk driver killed a 21 year old Albion player now, would they go to prison?

As for Justin Fashanu, I hadn’t realised the US Police weren’t actively pursuing him, I was always under the impression that he was a wanted man which was what forced him to take his own life. 😞

The only aspect of this chat with Nic that has actually got worse not better is the rise of the gambling culture which effectively destroyed Bobby Smith’s life, over 50 years on from the height of Smith’s addiction how many other lives have been destroyed because of gambling? Yet it remains one of the principal sponsors of mainstream British sport.
 


Eeyore

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Lenny Rider said:
To be fair BL the question is almost rhetorical, they were different times, but that doesn’t retract from all three tragic tales.

If a drunk driver killed a 21 year old Albion player now, would they go to prison?

As for Justin Fashanu, I hadn’t realised the US Police weren’t actively pursuing him, I was always under the impression that he was a wanted man which was what forced him to take his own life. 😞

The only aspect of this chat with Nic that has actually got worse not better is the rise of the gambling culture which effectively destroyed Bobby Smith’s life, over 50 years on from the height of Smith’s addiction how many other lives have been destroyed because of gambling? Yet it remains one of the principal sponsors of mainstream British sport.
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I like Nic's writings. He's a good guest for the show. Keep them coming.

I know Justin enjoyed life in Brighton- he probably felt better for it. Didn't stop the tabloids trying to destroy him a few years later with that article with his brother.

1970s and 1980s seems like another world really.

As for gambling, I wonder if there will be a natural wastage in that because the players earn so much and are better managed now. Can't help but feel sorry for those who missed better times.
 


Guinness Boy

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Two issues with gambling. Firstly if you legislate it out of sport altogether then the Albion are in deep, deep doo-doo. If you legislate it out of everything then it goes underground.

Had an interesting chat with a new work colleague who lives in rural Cambridgeshire the other week. He reckons dog v badger fighting and hare coursing have picked up even more in lockdown round there. I don't think I want the world to become even more like "Snatch". Same reason I'm dead against banning boxing.

Better help and support is what's needed IMO. Understanding that addiction (to anything) is an illness, not something to be mocked or swept under the carpet. We can all play our part in this and I know from your posts you're doing your bit [MENTION=17322]Lenny Rider[/MENTION]
 




L

Lenny Rider

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Sep 15, 2010
5,441
Guinness Boy said:
Two issues with gambling. Firstly if you legislate it out of sport altogether then the Albion are in deep, deep doo-doo. If you legislate it out of everything then it goes underground.

Had an interesting chat with a new work colleague who lives in rural Cambridgeshire the other week. He reckons dog v badger fighting and hare coursing have picked up even more in lockdown round there. I don't think I want the world to become even more like "Snatch". Same reason I'm dead against banning boxing.

Better help and support is what's needed IMO. Understanding that addiction (to anything) is an illness, not something to be mocked or swept under the carpet. We can all play our part in this and I know from your posts you're doing your bit [MENTION=17322]Lenny Rider[/MENTION]
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Thanks mate.

It is very tough, the individual I alluded to in the video effectively lost £900,000 in a calendar year through gambling, as well as his house and his family. Although in the good days Ladbokes classed him as a ‘Platinum Client’ and basically wined and dined him at Ascot, Epsom and Goodwood etc, all the time he was in funds!

He now mentors young addicts through Gamblers Anonymous and thankfully has re built bridges with his children. 👍
 


Eeyore

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Lenny Rider said:
Thanks mate.

It is very tough, the individual I alluded to in the video effectively lost £900,000 in a calendar year through gambling, as well as his house and his family. Although in the good days Ladbokes classed him as a ‘Platinum Client’ and basically wined and dined him at Ascot, Epsom and Goodwood etc, all the time he was in funds!

He now mentors young addicts through Gamblers Anonymous and thankfully has re built bridges with his children.
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Do they have algorithms and stuff in place now, or is it just these meaningless warnings ?

It's a tough one to legislate, but some folk do need protecting.
 


L

Lenny Rider

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Sep 15, 2010
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Brighton Lines said:
Do they have algorithms and stuff in place now, or is it just these meaningless warnings ?

It's a tough one to legislate, but some folk do need protecting.
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I don’t think they do, it’s all merely lip service, When the Fun Stops Stop 🤷*♂️

The free bet thing is my big bug bear, that and the ridiculous odds ads, last week various pops up on my iPad and FB told me I could get odds of 30/1 on Chelsea beating Manchester City, clearly something to entice the weak into the web.

That said I’m not turning into Oliver Cromwell, it just needs proper regulation and the addicts need real help with rehabilitation.

My friends boy got on an Casino app on his phone, nice lad, very level headed, in the space of a month or so he ran up debts of over £1,500 chasing his losses, an ordinary lad in his late teens in Sunny Worthing, but how many times is that scenario replicated around the UK?
 




lawros left foot

lawros left foot

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Jun 11, 2011
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I knew a submariner when I was in the RN, his wife and 3 kids lived in Ipswich, he was based at HMS Dolphin in Gosport. He had a long term illness which meant he couldn’t go on subs for about a year so he was shore based.
He used to get bored in the evenings, so, started visiting a casino in Southampton and the inevitable happened, he got hooked on gambling. In 6 months, he had gambled away 28, 000 quid.
The casino informed the Navy, his employer as he was deep in debt, the Navy gave him the choice of court martial, or to leave the service immediately on not quite a dishonourable discharge, but’ Services no longer required’
He lost everything, his marriage, his family, and his home.

The forces could be very brutal sometimes.
 


rocker959

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Excellent stuff
 






B

Brownstuff

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Feb 21, 2009
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Love all these varied Harty videos especially stories regarding former colourful Brighton players, thank you
Hope Steve Foster is on the wish list
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

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There was a programme about Justin Fashanu on telly last night. Don't know if it is a new one, but what looked liked new interviews with John. It all seems a bit odd now. The main message, after applying the '1980s were a long time ago' filter seemed to be that Justin liked money a bit too much.

I've seen and read countless things about attitudes to sexual orientation in football. My guess is lots of gay players are in the game and are protected (if that's the right concept) by their team mates. I can't believe that every singly one lives a 'secret' life, or that there are none in the game. Where I work I discovered one of my colleagues is married to someone of the same sex recently, and I had no idea. There again she doesn't know about my private life either. I guess this is commonplace now in the work place. Our rights, after all, are protected in laws. And in football the lad culture doesn't exist above league 2 anymore, does it?

Back to Fashanu, the programme didn't explain why he took his own life and like others on this thread I was under the impression it was because the US police were after him for 'underage' (under 21 in the US at the time, was it not?) activities. If this is not the case then I remain in the dark.
 


N

Neville's Breakfast

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Brighton Lines said:
Do they have algorithms and stuff in place now, or is it just these meaningless warnings ?

It's a tough one to legislate, but some folk do need protecting.
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In Singapore you can contact the authorities to have a family member banned from the casino. Not sure if the same applies to other forms of gambling. Anyway it is very effective and the banned list runs into thousands.

https://www.ncpg.org.sg/en/pages/DealWithProblemGambling.aspx?categ=2&article=15

Sorry Lenny, I know this isn’t a thread about gambling.
 




Durlston

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Cloughie worked in football for years and was ill - he was an alcoholic and it made him into a volatile, nasty and unpredictable man. He couldn't accept he had a drink problem and the behaviour towards his own players, his own supporters (lumping Nottingham Forest fans after a good natured pitch invasion was taking the law into his own hands) and chairmen (telling them to keep their noses out even if they'd stumped up the money for players he wanted).

He let down Justin Fashanu who never recovered from being bullied and humiliated in public from someone who should have been protecting him.
 


AmexRuislip

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L

Lenny Rider

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2010
5,441
Durlston said:
Cloughie worked in football for years and was ill - he was an alcoholic and it made him into a volatile, nasty and unpredictable man. He couldn't accept he had a drink problem and the behaviour towards his own players, his own supporters (lumping Nottingham Forest fans after a good natured pitch invasion was taking the law into his own hands) and chairmen (telling them to keep their noses out even if they'd stumped up the money for players he wanted).

He let down Justin Fashanu who never recovered from being bullied and humiliated in public from someone who should have been protecting him.
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Regardless of his ability someone like Cloughie in modern times would be unemployable, when you analyse his treatment of Fashanu, I’m surprised the PFA didn’t get more involved?
 


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