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[Football] Oh Tomer.........



wellquickwoody

wellquickwoody

Many More Voting Years
NSC Patron
Aug 10, 2007
13,624
Melbourne
Dorset Seagull said:
That sounds more like an observation than anti semitism :shrug:
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Spot on.

Although as it does contain a point of view which is not 100 per cent fully endorsing of current Israeli policy, it makes the author akin to being a war criminal in the eyes of many blinkered zealots.
 






Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,019
The arse end of Hangleton
Neville's Breakfast said:
‘The Jewish business community has a huge influence over the US Government.’ I don’t know what to say really about your vile anti semitism. I also don’t know why the mods have not stepped in.
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OK, so now you might want to define what you believe to be "anti semitism" ?
 


Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,019
The arse end of Hangleton
Bognor Seagull said:
You do realise Israel is the ONLY Democratic country in the Middle East.
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And yet elections take place in Iran, Jordan, Kuwait to name but a few. You also seem to miss that Palestinians / Arabs don't have the same rights in Israel as Israelis.
 


S

SeagullCrow

Well-known member
May 9, 2008
556
Westdene Seagull said:
OK, so now you might want to define what you believe to be "anti semitism" ?
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I'm loathe to enter into this debate, because I see how it can be confusing for some. Utilising the working definition of anti-semitism is probably quite helpful here. It's the definition that's been adopted by many political parties (although I accept that this definition is not without its critics):- https://www.holocaustremembrance.co...ions-charters/working-definition-antisemitism

As such, the claim about "Jewish business" having undue influence on politics would fall under the definition:-

"Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions."
 






Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,019
The arse end of Hangleton
SeagullCrow said:
I'm loathe to enter into this debate, because I see how it can be confusing for some. Utilising the working definition of anti-semitism is probably quite helpful here. It's the definition that's been adopted by many political parties (although I accept that this definition is not without its critics):- https://www.holocaustremembrance.co...ions-charters/working-definition-antisemitism

As such, the claim about "Jewish business" having undue influence on politics would fall under the definition:-

"Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions."
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The problem being that there ARE actually a number of communities that have strong influence over the American government - the Jewish community being one. The NRA being an other. The business community and the CofE have a great influence over the UK government. Stating these facts doesn't make it a anti-semetic statement, nor an anto CofE statemen.
 


JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
SeagullCrow said:
I'm loathe to enter into this debate, because I see how it can be confusing for some. Utilising the working definition of anti-semitism is probably quite helpful here. It's the definition that's been adopted by many political parties (although I accept that this definition is not without its critics):- https://www.holocaustremembrance.co...ions-charters/working-definition-antisemitism

As such, the claim about "Jewish business" having undue influence on politics would fall under the definition:-

"Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions."
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His first post on here made a comparison with the Nazis which is also referenced as an example of anti semitism .. perhaps he's working down the list?

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
 




Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,019
The arse end of Hangleton
Neville's Breakfast said:
Vaguely targeted conspiracy theories referencing Jewish control of media and finance are anti semitism. It was a well used tactic by the Nazis. You know this. The mods know this.
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Well then you haven't actually read what I said .... maybe you might want to highlight where I've even suggested these two conspiracy theories ?
 


Robot Chicken

Robot Chicken

Seriously?
Jul 5, 2003
13,154
Chicken World
Psychobilly freakout said:
We all the real reason this has flared up again, Israeli settlers and government needing an excuse to continue taking land and houses that are not there's, encroaching further into Palestinian land.
It will settle down, and Israel will have settled more land for the ever growing population.

wrong.

https://youtu.be/KNqozQ8uaV8
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I mean, to be fair, this blew up over a case of unpaid rent. There is a Jewish neighbourhood where the Arab Palestinian residents have been refusing to pay rent for 30 years. Under those circumstances it is only fair that they are evicted.
 






Bakero

Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
13,786
Almería
"Jews control America" = anti-Semitic

"The Jewish business community has a huge influence over US government" = a bit of an exaggeration which could've been worded better. But vile anti-Semitism? Not for me, Clive.
 


S

SeagullCrow

Well-known member
May 9, 2008
556
Westdene Seagull said:
The problem being that there ARE actually a number of communities that have strong influence over the American government - the Jewish community being one. The NRA being an other. The business community and the CofE have a great influence over the UK government. Stating these facts doesn't make it a anti-semetic statement, nor an anto CofE statemen.
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And this is the crux of the issue. You are equating the influence of an explicitly political lobby group (the NRA) with the practices of American businessmen and businesswomen who just so happen to share a common faith. In doing so, you're implying that they have a collective ideological agenda to their existence. The truth of the matter is that these individuals are not a homogenous group and probably have a vast range of diverse views about what American foreign policy should look like.

This notion that "Jewish Business" have mobilised to shape American policy is in and of itself anti-Semitic under the working definition we have laid out above.
Swanman talks about the influence of AIPAC, who are a lobby group set up with a political agenda in mind, You can't equate or conflate such organisations with "Jewish business", the views of people working within those organisations or that of the Jewish community more broadly. AIPAC are not reflective of "Jewish Business" (or even Jewish Americans) and never have been.

But this is a very sensitive topic, and we should probably leave it there.
 


D

dangull

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2013
5,112
To be fair, Israel is a small country surrounded by a lot of Muslim lands, and was their homeland in the time of Jesus. You can understand the force to defend themselves is maybe a bit excessive when the holocaust is in recent history.
 






sydney

sydney

tinky ****in winky
Jul 11, 2003
17,752
town full of eejits
dangull said:
To be fair, Israel is a small country surrounded by a lot of Muslim lands, and was their homeland in the time of Jesus. You can understand the force to defend themselves is maybe a bit excessive when the holocaust is in recent history.
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its all hearsay i'm afraid old chap.......jesus and all that .....what a lovely spot to get repatriated to though , by the superpowers and all that , it could just as easily been the horn of Africa ....Eritrea . lovely spot.
 


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