[NSC] New sash windows in conservation area, wooden or upvc

S

Surport Local Team

Well-known member

Jan 5, 2011

706

• Apr 9, 2021

• #1

I need new energy efficient double glazed sash windows, do I go for cheaper and more energy efficient upvc sash windows that are made to exact speck as wooden, or very expensive wooden sash that's not so energy efficient on epc.

The flat is on third floor and not in seafront or any of the prime areas, however it is still conservation area as in Kemp town. Has anyone just put in upvc without speaking to council or is this not advisable. I did try ringing the plannig department they are not available by phone because of covid, so emailed the department. A email came straight back due to covid not answering emails. I can send in planning appplication however, but was looking for some advice from planning first.

 

Nitram

Well-known member

Jul 16, 2013

2,178

• Apr 9, 2021

• #2

Surport Local Team said:

I need new energy efficient double glazed sash windows, do I go for cheaper and more energy efficient upvc sash windows that are made to exact speck as wooden, or very expensive wooden sash that's not so energy efficient on epc.

The flat is on third floor and not in seafront or any of the prime areas, however it is still conservation area as in Kemp town. Has anyone just put in upvc without speaking to council or is this not advisable. I did try ringing the plannig department they are not available by phone because of covid, so emailed the department. A email came straight back due to covid not answering emails. I can send in planning appplication however, but was looking for some advice from planning first.

Click to expand...

This may be of use
https://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/si...energy efficiency in Conservation Areas_1.pdf

Don’t do as someone in our street did and replace all windows with non matching double glazed. Council made him take them out and replace them with ones that met the spec. for conservation area.

 

clapham_gull

Legacy Fan

Aug 20, 2003

25,307

• Apr 10, 2021

• #3

Surport Local Team said:

I need new energy efficient double glazed sash windows, do I go for cheaper and more energy efficient upvc sash windows that are made to exact speck as wooden, or very expensive wooden sash that's not so energy efficient on epc.

The flat is on third floor and not in seafront or any of the prime areas, however it is still conservation area as in Kemp town. Has anyone just put in upvc without speaking to council or is this not advisable. I did try ringing the plannig department they are not available by phone because of covid, so emailed the department. A email came straight back due to covid not answering emails. I can send in planning appplication however, but was looking for some advice from planning first.

Click to expand...

Can't help you cos I'm in London but...

I bizarrely live in a conservation area, but that's everything to do with the multi-million pound heaps at the end of the road with their own private square.

I've got wooden sash at the front and what a nightmare they are. Yes they look nice but let's face it - they are a completely flawed design. I've got to fork out again to get them looked at soon.

However at the back I've got the upvc version. Open easily at all times of year, don't have to paint them, far better designed, more secure but most off all they don't let draft in.

When I had that put in, I got the "original" window moved a few metres. It didn't work where it was for a kitchen because it went down very low (as if in a front room) so you could put units in front of it. Although the room was being used as a sitting room, it was originally the kitchen. Always confused me, but it was also rotting.

Anyway being the good citizen I am, I applied for planning permission to move the window and replace with a modern upvc one.

When the builders knocked through the new window they found a bricked up original hole in the Victorian brick work.

To cut a long story short, I soon found out the "good news".

Someone had moved the sash window and replaced with a larger one probably ten years before without planning permission. I forked out a few hundred quid to apply for planning permission to move it back to it's original place and size.

 

Last edited: Apr 10, 2021

Live by the sea

Well-known member

Oct 21, 2016

4,718

• Apr 10, 2021

• #4

See if you can put in grey aluminium windows . They look a lot better than white upvc and are more practical than wooden ones .

 

K

Kubes

Active member

Jan 6, 2010

120

• Apr 10, 2021

• #5

If you live in a conservation area or if you live in a flat you will need planning permission. The planning portal website has lots of information about common projects including window replacement.

 

B

Binney on acid

Well-known member

NSC Patron

Nov 30, 2003

2,489

Shoreham

• Apr 10, 2021

• #6

I have a flat in a Shoreham conservation area. Our planning application to have the original 1960's wooden sash windows and porch replaced with UPV was declined. The wood was rotten beyond repair. Double glazed wooden sash windows are a specialist area and cheap & cheerful is not an option. The work has just been completed at a cost of £15k + VAT. They made a fantastic job of it. Financially, it's a bitter pill to swallow, but I factored the cost into the price of the flat, when I bought it, and have absolutely no regrets about it.

 

jackanada

Well-known member

Jul 19, 2011

3,157

Brighton

• Apr 10, 2021

• #7

Conservation area means that unless the window is not visible from the street (and often but even then) you need to keep the exact style of window. You can add some draught proofing but that's about it without checking. You may be able to have slimline DG units in the sash or they may suggest secondary glazing.
Also I don't get the negativity about sash windows. Over a hundred years old with a few repairs (some incompetent) along the way that they work at all is marvellous.
Also a well fitted sash window provides almost the exact same ventilation as the recommended trickle vent on a modern DG unit.

 

zefarelly

Well-known member

NSC Patron

Jul 7, 2003

21,811

Sussex, by the sea

• Apr 10, 2021

• #8

Binney on acid said:

I have a flat in a Shoreham conservation area. Our planning application to have the original 1960's wooden sash windows and porch replaced with UPV was declined. The wood was rotten beyond repair. Double glazed wooden sash windows are a specialist area and cheap & cheerful is not an option. The work has just been completed at a cost of £15k + VAT. They made a fantastic job of it. Financially, it's a bitter pill to swallow, but I factored the cost into the price of the flat, when I bought it, and have absolutely no regrets about it.

Click to expand...

We too live in a conservation area in Shoreham, our windows have been shocking since we moved in, and we've finally got round to spendine the same amount on Aluminium Crittal style windows ( 30's house ) Whilst it was a significant investment it has made a huge difference inside and out the house and I'm convinced if we were ever to sell the investment was worth it.

Our house also looks ten times better than the 3 others the same but with plastic tat windows

My advice would be to shop around and actually visit the companies to see the product and inspect how its made. Etc. It is possible to have faithful recreations with modern technology benefits. Grey is fashionable at the moment . . .like brown was in the late 80's/early 90's . . . . Looks shocking now

 

H

HAILSHAM SEAGULL

Well-known member

Nov 9, 2009

10,347

• Apr 10, 2021

• #9

You will definately need planning permission within a conservation area, and knowing Brighton & Hove City Council, they will only let you replace with like for like
wooden sash windows.
Whilst these are bespoke and very good, I wouldn't be surprised if each window cost between £700/£1000 each, assuming that you have Astragal georgian bars and toughened glass.

PS, You will definately not be allowed to fit grey aluminium windows.

 

Official Old Man

Uckfield Seagull

Aug 27, 2011

8,542

Brighton

• Apr 10, 2021

• #10

Wait for a multi national chain to open nearby and put in a new shop front.
Why you ask?
The seafront along Kings Road is in the Old Town conservation area. All shops and flats have to have wooden surrounds. 17 years ago Shell World at 41 Kings Road applied for a upvc shop front, denied. Had to be wooden. Similarly all the flats in the block had new windows fitted but had to be wooden.
Moving on to 2014 and the flats within the block at 39/40 Kings Road (Fish & Chip Shop corner of Ship St.) application for upvc windows turned down.
In 2018 the shop at 40 Kings Road applied for a new front, again turned down.
Buddies, our favorite after hours drinking den, applied for a new open front, turned down. In all cases the council response was
The proposed UPVC replacement windows would cause significant harm to
the character and appearance of the host properties, street scene and the
wider Old Town Conservation Area. The use of UPVC is an unsympathetic
material to such an historic building which would result in the frames having
a significantly bulkier appearance that would not match the existing joinery
details to the building. As such the proposed alterations are contrary to HE6
within the Brighton & Hove Local Plan and SPD09: Architectural Features.
All the above premises are within a 100 yard stretch of road, and yes I do own one of them.
But wait, it's 2019 and along comes a multi national company who wish to install a UPVC frontage and illuminated signs, all banned to everybody else, and guess what. The whole lot goes through straight away. Check out Google maps of the street a few years ago with wooden shop fronts and no illuminated signs and now every shop is having new fronts and signs.
So as I say, wait until a big chain want something and you can join them. Thank you Burger King.

 

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle

NSC Patron

Oct 8, 2003

49,927

Faversham

• Apr 10, 2021

• #11

It helps to grease your way around the local planning committee. I live in a conservation area. The street-facing fronts of the houses are all supposed to be the same, same windows same walls. One of my neighbours wanted to put in a 2 storey extension round the back of his house. He managed to chat up most of the planning committee and they let him get on with it (even though my next door neighbour was forced to redo the roof on a single storey extension because it had to be 'in keeping' with others not a flat roof - even though the extension 2 doors away has a flat roof).

Bottom line, my greaser neighbour inherited an ugly double-wide single window on the street facing wall and was told by planning to replace it with original looking single windows as part of the extension deal. Needless to say the extension is built but the ugly double wide window remains. I always take an ostentatious look through when I pop down to my pal's house, two doors further on, to watch the football. Every day.

Planning regs are clear, but their implementation and policing make the refs running VAR look like precision professionals.

 

E

Elbow750

Well-known member

Jun 21, 2020

449

• Apr 10, 2021

• #12

I live in a conservation area in Lewes. 4 years ago we had a Solidor composite stable door and one Residence 9 casement window put in at the back of our house.
These are conservation grade plastic, wood effect finish with the stable door having an engineered wooden core to prevent warping. They replaced some very rotten wooden ones. I emailed the planners to tell them (didn't ask for permission) what I was doing but they never responded.

I wanted to reduce the amount of painting as the house has a lot of big wooden sash windows too. Not sure I would put plastic in again, and I'd certainly look to refurbish the wooden sashes as they add to the character. Next time think I will try windows made from acetylated wood, where softwood is chemically treated to make it rot resistant. This gives you a wooden window that isn't going to rot in the next 50 years.

Wooden sashes can have those draft proof brush seals installed by specialist, which are supposed to be great at making things warmer in winter. They're on my wish list too.

 

R

redoubtable seagull

Well-known member

Oct 27, 2004

2,530

• Apr 11, 2021

• #13

Lots of good advice on this thread. The other thing I’d do is take a walk around your area and see what other properties have done and whether there’s any precedence.