[Football] Football’s shame and silence

El Presidente · Mar 19, 2021

If another industry, or perhaps a religion, had a report revealing child sexual abuse and a blind eye approach taken by authorities and stakeholders there would be discussion and outrage about it on social media and football message boards.

When it comes to the football industry itself there’s a shrug and silence. Why is this the case?

Dick Knights Mumm · Mar 19, 2021

Partly because it is four years since it first came out. In that time the FA have got their act together. They distributed info to clubs for circulation to managers and parents - and it’s not just window dressing. Also it’s discomforting to hear about what those children went through. You’re right though. There is pretty much silence.

Goldstone1976 · Mar 19, 2021

Yep, very low key reporting. There’s been more coverage about the US gymnasts getting abused than in our national game. Very poor show.

Guinness Boy · Mar 19, 2021

Goldstone1976 said:
Yep, very low key reporting. There’s been more coverage about the US gymnasts getting abused than in our national game. Very poor show.

There was a prominent story on the BBC website yesterday but pretty much everywhere else seemed to be ignoring it. Quite shameful really. I guess that Brexit / Covid / pretty US gymnasts sell papers.

Dick Knights Mumm said:
Partly because it is four years since it first came out. In that time the FA have got their act together. They distributed info to clubs for circulation to managers and parents - and it’s not just window dressing. Also it’s discomforting to hear about what those children went through. You’re right though. There is pretty much silence.

However, this is also true. I can only speak for my son's club and my own experience doing coaching badges but there's a lot around now that I suspect wasn't a while ago. Big focus on safeguarding as part of coaching courses, mandatory CRB checks but also process. At his club parents had to stay for training and matches until the kids were in the under twelves and at no point were coaches allowed to be one on one with a child. It's obviously not going to completely weed out a total wrong 'un who has managed to not get a criminal record but it's much more than I suspect existed when I played youth football. Hopefully at bigger clubs the culture is changing so that a Bennell type would not be tolerated.

AmexRuislip · Mar 19, 2021

From the Guardian:

However Sheldon absolved the FA from criticism for those decades in which the sport had no child protection in place for its young players, placing that in the context of general attitudes at the time. “I do not consider that the FA’s inaction during this period is blameworthy. For most of this period, child abuse was generally seen as something which occurred within the family setting or in residential environments, and not within the world of sport.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...otball-sexual-abuse-report-scandal-sheldon-fa

Isn't this like saying the Catholic Church were not responsible for what went on under their charge....

Lenny Rider · Mar 19, 2021

Too much money involved?

I once heard a seasoned pro describe youth development at top flight clubs as no better than working at Dewhursts, the kids are treated like pieces of meat.

Looks like Dario Gradi might have to send his medal back to Buck House when all the dust has settled on this.

SAC · Mar 19, 2021

El Presidente said:
If another industry, or perhaps a religion, had a report revealing child sexual abuse and a blind eye approach taken by authorities and stakeholders there would be discussion and outrage about it on social media and football message boards.

When it comes to the football industry itself there’s a shrug and silence. Why is this the case?

It may not have been mentioned on NSC recently (until this thread) but it was certainly on the BBC news and I went on a train yesterday and there was a big article in the free newspaper. There are plenty of articles in The Guardian and I'm sure there will be in other papers and TV news too.

Although not in football, my son works in youth coaching, and it will be so much harder for a Bennell to get through the net now. Thankfully.

Gwylan · Mar 19, 2021

SAC said:
It may not have been mentioned on NSC recently (until this thread) but it was certainly on the BBC news and I went on a train yesterday and there was a big article in the free newspaper. There are plenty of articles in The Guardian and I'm sure there will be in other papers and TV news too.

Although not in football, my son works in youth coaching, and it will be so much harder for a Bennell to get through the net now. Thankfully.

Yeah, I was a bit surprised to see the OP; there's been a massive amount of coverage of it - it was the second or third item on the main BBC news and the Guardian had three articles on it. Even the much maligned Daily Mail gave it some prominence.

I can't speak for football but if you're a coach in rugby or cricket there's a massive amount of time given to safeguarding. You can't your certificates without being very aware of the situation and as Guinness Boy says, a lot of rules for coaches to abide by. Clubs are very strict on this now

Bozza · Mar 19, 2021

Guinness Boy said:
There was a prominent story on the BBC website yesterday but pretty much everywhere else seemed to be ignoring it.

There's been widespread coverage on 5Live this week, which I listen to a fair bit most days.

darkwolf666 · Mar 19, 2021

Lenny Rider said:
Too much money involved?

I once heard a seasoned pro describe youth development at top flight clubs as no better than working at Dewhursts, the kids are treated like pieces of meat.

Looks like Dario Gradi might have to send his medal back to Buck House when all the dust has settled on this.

Why single out Gradi, the report says he was not involved in any cover up.

Put the names up of those involved by all means, but don't sow the seeds of doubt as to someone's integrity, by just throwing his name into the mix and running away.

The report does indicate Gradi "should have done more". I'm sure there's times in all of our lives when we "should have done more", but don't get hung out on a public forum, allowing enough shit to stick to allow the uninformed to make biased decisions.

keaton · Mar 19, 2021

AmexRuislip said:
From the Guardian:

However Sheldon absolved the FA from criticism for those decades in which the sport had no child protection in place for its young players, placing that in the context of general attitudes at the time. “I do not consider that the FA’s inaction during this period is blameworthy. For most of this period, child abuse was generally seen as something which occurred within the family setting or in residential environments, and not within the world of sport.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...otball-sexual-abuse-report-scandal-sheldon-fa

Isn't this like saying the Catholic Church were not responsible for what went on under their charge....

Not really, I think he's saying that not having a policy on something you aren't required to or don't think is an issue is understandable. Not properly investigating criminal offences, hiding and hushing them up and continuing to employ the guilty party is a separate matter

amexer · Mar 19, 2021

Horrific how in the past when you read how so many were trusted beyond suspicion even going as far as people knowing kids were staying over at houses. Today there are so many good people involved in cricket coaching for eg and very very unlikely to happen now with the procedures in place.

Guinness Boy · Mar 19, 2021

Bozza said:
There's been widespread coverage on 5Live this week, which I listen to a fair bit most days.

I should have thought of that. Normally the stories on the BBC site are backing reports on their other media.

However, dare I say it, on other less neutral media it may be that abuse by some people are reported more often than abuse by others.

This is kind of a side issue though. The important thing is that football continues to learn lessons and to always be wary for Bennell type situations.

drew · Mar 19, 2021

Like most organisations of this sort, the priority is to protect the organisation rather than the victims and the earlier analogy with the catholic church is spot on.

In this era, the FA have to be seen to be doing more, hence the safeguarding courses etc and the imposition of regulations regarding youngsters. However, when I did the safeguarding course I was disappointed about how much of it was about protecting yourself from allegations rather than identifying children at risk. I also don't recall much about spotting other coaches whose behaviour might be suspicious.

I also don't accept the defence that the 1980s and 90s were a different time with different attitudes. There were people around then, including, allegedly, Graham Taylor, who had incidents reported to them and they did nothing. What the report should have done is named people that chose to bury reports rather than act on them.

Lenny Rider · Mar 19, 2021

darkwolf666 said:
Why single out Gradi, the report says he was not involved in any cover up.

Put the names up of those involved by all means, but don't sow the seeds of doubt as to someone's integrity, by just throwing his name into the mix and running away.

The report does indicate Gradi "should have done more". I'm sure there's times in all of our lives when we "should have done more", but don't get hung out on a public forum, allowing enough shit to stick to allow the uninformed to make biased decisions.

The Offside Trust, which helps victims of the aforementioned sex abuse, has made an official request to the Cabinet Office for the removal of Gradi's MBE, I think that's fairly damning don't you?

SAC · Mar 19, 2021

Lenny Rider said:
The Offside Trust, which helps victims of the aforementioned sex abuse, has made an official request to the Cabinet Office for the removal of Gradi's MBE, I think that's fairly damning don't you?

Likewise the FA have banned him for life from working in football

vagabond · Mar 19, 2021

It’s just a sickening, abhorrent story. I can only surmise the relative silence (relative, as there has been public statements), is that many of the offenders are no longer here or are already behind bars. It must be pretty awful for chairman who weren’t even around at the time, to have to now answer to or even acknowledge such horrific subjects.

Hopefully the outcome of all this will bring about positive changes to keep children safe. There’ll be more stringent checks, protocols and working with kids in football will be as officiated as it is with any teaching profession.

SeagullinExile · Mar 19, 2021

darkwolf666 said:
Why single out Gradi, the report says he was not involved in any cover up.

Put the names up of those involved by all means, but don't sow the seeds of doubt as to someone's integrity, by just throwing his name into the mix and running away.

The report does indicate Gradi "should have done more". I'm sure there's times in all of our lives when we "should have done more", but don't get hung out on a public forum, allowing enough shit to stick to allow the uninformed to make biased decisions.

I used to work with an ex player in the late 90's. He worked under Gradi at Chelsea as a youngster. Gradi came up in conversation once, this fella hated him saying 'there's a lot more to that scumbag than people know'. You could see the hatred in his eyes when talking about the man.

Didn't think too much about it at the time.

Garry Nelson's Left Foot · Mar 19, 2021

It's as big a scandal as the catholic church. I find it incredibly hard to believe that people didn't know what was going on.

I have a friend who went for a trial at Southampton when Bob Higgins, one of the convicted paedophiles, was there. I'm not sure if I can or should go into the details but the gist of it is my friend had a run in with him after the trial that was highly, highly dubious. Luckily my friend had the character of mind to immediately turn round walk away and tell his parents he was done with the trial. He walked away and never went back.

His friend didn't and it ****ed up his life.

How is it possible that paedophile coaches can be so brazen as to proposition trialists and no one at the clubs knew about it? How could no one know? It's impossible. There must be hundreds if not thousands of people involved in the game who turned a blind eye to what was going on. How do they live with themselves? Because the victims certainly struggled with living with their selves and some couldn't.

If the kids knew there were predators how could the adults not?

darkwolf666 · Mar 19, 2021

SAC said:
Likewise the FA have banned him for life from working in football

He hasn’t been banned for life, he has been suspended from football since 2016.

I’m guessing at his age he hasn’t bothered to fight the “safeguarding issues” reason for his suspension.

Granted, it sounds like some of his ideas were outdated and he had a lack of understanding what abuse looked like. - but at no point has anyone accused him of anything, other than “not doing enough”, not even the FA.

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