[Technology] The In no way official Electric Car thread

GOM · Jan 30, 2022

Deportivo Seagull said:
The main problem is with speed of charge and ability to hold the charge.
An article on Imeche website discussed the new rapid charging algorithms (offsets internal resistance, temperature, charge state and battery age) being designed and the fact that after 40 rapid charges the cell capacity falls to 60% which is not really acceptable.
Batteries don’t like rapid charge (or rapid discharge for that matter). Personally I think we are stuck with hybrids unless hydrogen kicks. Hydrogen is ecologically the best solution.

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Are you sure hydrogen is the ecological answer ? Watch the linked video below between 26 and 41 minutes (although it's all worth watching, his rants are great). Most hydrogen fuel is created from natural gas and the rest uses more electric power to create than you get from the hydrogen.

https://youtu.be/Cf6qfDK4OH0

Papa Lazarou · Jan 30, 2022

swindonseagull said:
New car time at work, no more car ownership scheme so we have to go company car route with Zenith,
My car is not due change until Sept but they are now alloing a full 9 months for order and delivery.

Choices are ( condensed) a conventional diesel/petrol Ford Focus size car and pay £200 PM BIK tax or Pay £160 PM extra so £40 less and Get a VW id4.
The home charger grant (£350) currently expires in April.......but has anyonr got a VW id4 ? or Skoda Enyak ? any pros or cons?

All the reviews I've seen seem to suggest that the Enyaq is the better car overall, despite being in the same platform. Better kit, longer range etc.

Doonhamer7 · Jan 30, 2022

GOM said:
Are you sure hydrogen is the ecological answer ? Watch the linked video below between 26 and 41 minutes (although it's all worth watching, his rants are great). Most hydrogen fuel is created from natural gas and the rest uses more electric power to create than you get from the hydrogen.

https://youtu.be/Cf6qfDK4OH0

Hydrogen is coming to us big time both for cars and maybe our home heating. Our current reliance is on blue hydrogen (from gas) but we’ll soon see grey and green hydrogen which is more environmentally friendly. Problem is cost in converting and transporting - therefore we need to create ammonia to transport it then convert the ammonia to hydrogen - natural gas needs to be taxed to the hilt (can’t remember the number but it is big) to make hydrogen economical. Engineering is devoting the processes and the technology to make it cheaper and at huge scale. Was in discussion last month on distribution - H2 is so much smaller than CH4, means it can leak much easier means quality of all equipment, pipes, welds has to be to a different level (again cost)

Rowdey · Jan 30, 2022

Doonhamer7 said:
Hydrogen is coming to us big time both for cars and maybe our home heating. Our current reliance is on blue hydrogen (from gas) but we’ll soon see grey and green hydrogen which is more environmentally friendly. Problem is cost in converting and transporting - therefore we need to create ammonia to transport it then convert the ammonia to hydrogen - natural gas needs to be taxed to the hilt (can’t remember the number but it is big) to make hydrogen economical. Engineering is devoting the processes and the technology to make it cheaper and at huge scale. Was in discussion last month on distribution - H2 is so much smaller than CH4, means it can leak much easier means quality of all equipment, pipes, welds has to be to a different level (again cost)

I'm keen on H2 as it means i dont have to retrain to be an electrician (@Justice gissa job..?), but it has it downsides as you say, inc a faster flame speed, wider Stoichometric (i think that's the correct word..) value and gives off no voltage when burnt.. All these things make it harder for combustion boilers to use H2 at 100%.
And until we clear that conundrum of how to make it in cleanly, in volume, then c22m homes will continue using CH4..

GOM · Jan 31, 2022

Doonhamer7 said:
Hydrogen is coming to us big time both for cars and maybe our home heating. Our current reliance is on blue hydrogen (from gas) but we’ll soon see grey and green hydrogen which is more environmentally friendly. Problem is cost in converting and transporting - therefore we need to create ammonia to transport it then convert the ammonia to hydrogen - natural gas needs to be taxed to the hilt (can’t remember the number but it is big) to make hydrogen economical. Engineering is devoting the processes and the technology to make it cheaper and at huge scale. Was in discussion last month on distribution - H2 is so much smaller than CH4, means it can leak much easier means quality of all equipment, pipes, welds has to be to a different level (again cost)

Hydrogen has been the 'future' for decades already, fuel cells have been around for 170 years but is still nowhere near. It may become useful for aircraft or shipping, or HGV but not anywhere in the near future and certainly not for cars.

Our current reliance is on grey hydrogen (not blue as you said), extracted from natural gas with vast amount of greenhouse gasses produced. As for blue hydrogen, still extracted in the same way from natural gas but supposedly with the carbon extracted and stored. Yeah heard that one before. Green hydrogen produced through electrolysis requires more electrical energy for the process than the hydrogen produces, so why bother ? why not put the electricity straight into a battery?

Doonhamer7 · Jan 31, 2022

GOM said:
Hydrogen has been the 'future' for decades already, fuel cells have been around for 170 years but is still nowhere near. It may become useful for aircraft or shipping, or HGV but not anywhere in the near future and certainly not for cars.

Our current reliance is on grey hydrogen (not blue as you said), extracted from natural gas with vast amount of greenhouse gasses produced. As for blue hydrogen, still extracted in the same way from natural gas but supposedly with the carbon extracted and stored. Yeah heard that one before. Green hydrogen produced through electrolysis requires more electrical energy for the process than the hydrogen produces, so why bother ? why not put the electricity straight into a battery?

Re injection of greenhouse gases isn’t new - part of approval for Gorgon LNG (I think was/is the world’d most expensive hydrocarbon projects at >$50bn)was the re injection of CO2 back into the reservoir. We are currently looking at multiple reinjection projects across the globe -it’s becoming a large part of licences.

Not totally my area of expertise but the areas of world where we can produce “free” electricity are not near large conurbations where it is needed, one of best areas is Western Australia- lots of sun and wind, the energy is needed in Asia (Singapore, Korea, Japan). Losses in transfer cables makes it uneconomical, so use solar/wind to convert water into Ammonia (nh3) at source, liquify the ammonia then bulk transfer it to Japan et al, convert back to hydrogen (by product is nitrogen so clean fuel) to burn for electricity/ cars.

RandyWanger · Feb 1, 2022

A Porsche Taycan electric vehicle has entered the Guinness World Records for taking the shortest charging time to cross the United States in an electric vehicle. It surpassed the benchmark time of seven hours, 10 minutes, and 1 second by charging for nearly 2.5 hours during the cross-country drive :cheers:

Nice looking car too.

Audax · Feb 1, 2022

Just thought I'd drop in a winter vs summer comparison for my Zoe:

Summer - range around 235 miles, included several trips into London with extensive A and M road usage. Generally getting around 4.4 to 4.5 mpkwh

Winter - range estimate 165 miles, but variable depending on how cold it is and whether I pre-heat the car. No real long trips, mostly local driving doing school run and groceries. Car is currently reporting 3.2 mpkwh.

A large part of that loss is because when the battery is cold, you don't get as much regeneration input while driving. Another significant part is running the heating (especially given a lot of shorter trips, meaning a higher % of the miles are spent warming the interior). Smaller element, but still contributes, will be a higher % of miles driven in the dark - means more energy spent on lights.

GOM · Feb 2, 2022

Doonhamer7 said:
Re injection of greenhouse gases isn’t new - part of approval for Gorgon LNG (I think was/is the world’d most expensive hydrocarbon projects at >$50bn)was the re injection of CO2 back into the reservoir. We are currently looking at multiple reinjection projects across the globe -it’s becoming a large part of licences.

Not totally my area of expertise but the areas of world where we can produce “free” electricity are not near large conurbations where it is needed, one of best areas is Western Australia- lots of sun and wind, the energy is needed in Asia (Singapore, Korea, Japan). Losses in transfer cables makes it uneconomical, so use solar/wind to convert water into Ammonia (nh3) at source, liquify the ammonia then bulk transfer it to Japan et al, convert back to hydrogen (by product is nitrogen so clean fuel) to burn for electricity/ cars.

Isn't the point of electric or hydrogen to cut down on greenhouse gasses ? Carbon capture and store (CCS) simply doesn't work well at the moment, so the only non-massively polluting process left is electrolysis, which requires electricity. Then you have the losses creating the hydrogen, effectively creating a middle man between electricity and the car. Cut out the middleman put the electricity straight into a car battery.

Why convert.to ammonia then use a dirty bunker oil burning ship, the worst polluter of all, to transport it.

The losses in transmission are about 3% per 1000km and the Aus-Singapore project being developed by the Singaporean firm Sun Cable is projected to begin construction mid next year.

Fungus · Apr 12, 2022

Bumping this thread, because we've taken a leap of faith and ordered a Peugeot e208 GT Premium.

Having already test driven a Zoe (nice) and Leaf (not impressed), we were smitten with the Peugeot. Aided by the dealer having one available in stock, rather than the standard 4-6 month waiting list.

Now our minds are being boggled by all the apps and charging options. The main thing that worries me is we're likely to pick it up just before a planned 265 mile trip up to Sussex! In at the deep end...

Icy Gull · Apr 12, 2022

Oxy McFloppie-Tish said:
Bumping this thread, because we've taken a leap of faith and ordered a Peugeot e208 GT Premium.

Having already test driven a Zoe (nice) and Leaf (not impressed), we were smitten with the Peugeot. Aided by the dealer having one available in stock, rather than the standard 4-6 month waiting list.

Now our minds are being boggled by all the apps and charging options. The main thing that worries me is we're likely to pick it up just before a planned 265 mile trip up to Sussex! In at the deep end...

Nice looking car. Stellantis have done a great job of turning Peugeot around, here’s hoping they can do the same for Alfa Romeo :thumbsup:

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[Technology] The In no way official Electric Car thread

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GOM

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GOM

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