[Albion] 2nd penalty

Dave Fishwick · Mar 1, 2021

herecomesaregular said:
Agree that Gross should have taken it.
Welbeck and Lallana are looking like flops imo.

agree with this sadly. Our recruitment has got better year-on-year since joining the PL but I feel like the wages for Welbeck especially could have been used better. Lallana I struggle to see why we didn't look at his injury record and run a mile.

OzMike · Mar 1, 2021

Gross should have taken it.

METALMICKY · Mar 1, 2021

Easy 10 said:
As for the question of who should take it, I think Gross should absolutely have got back on the horse, he's usually reliable. For him to go hiding, if thats what he did, is disappointing and only reinforces this teams mental frailty in front of goal.

I can remember Harry Kane missing a crucial penalty in front of the Kop a couple of years ago. They got another one just a few minutes later, he stepped up again, and absolutely buried it. THATS the mentality we needed.

Is totally the correct response! And what's going to happen on the next penalty? Just maybe captain Dunk may have to step forward whilst the rest are gazing into their boots.

blue-shifted · Mar 1, 2021

METALMICKY said:
Is totally the correct response! And what's going to happen on the next penalty? Just maybe captain Dunk may have to step forward whilst the rest are gazing into their boots.

Yes. I don't get it. Players should be desperate to take a penalty. It doesn't matter if you've missed one, you've got another chance to score. The fact that our no 1 taker is running away speaks volumes about the soft mentality at the club at the moment. Confidence is absolutely shot.

The next manager we appoint, we should definitely make sure they've got some sort of background in player psychology, then this sort of thing almost certainly won't happen.

Swansman · Mar 1, 2021

blue-shifted said:
Yes. I don't get it. Players should be desperate to take a penalty. It doesn't matter if you've missed one, you've got another chance to score. The fact that our no 1 taker is running away speaks volumes about the soft mentality at the club at the moment. Confidence is absolutely shot.

The next manager we appoint, we should definitely make sure they've got some sort of background in player psychology, then this sort of thing almost certainly won't happen.

lmao

Its very rare for a player to take a second penalty when they have missed the first one. It happens, especially when the penalty doesnt mean anything, but its rare. As for confidence getting shot, it happens in every club and under any manager at some point - so what do you mean with certainly won't happen with a manager with "some sort of background in player psychology"? And what is a manager with "background in player psychology" by the way? Do you mean like a certified sports psychologist with UEFA Pro coaching license? Or what do you mean?

blue-shifted · Mar 1, 2021

Swansman said:
lmao

Its very rare for a player to take a second penalty when they have missed the first one. It happens, especially when the penalty doesnt mean anything, but its rare. As for confidence getting shot, it happens in every club and under any manager at some point - so what do you mean with certainly won't happen with a manager with "some sort of background in player psychology"? And what is a manager with "background in player psychology" by the way? Do you mean like a certified sports psychologist with UEFA Pro coaching license? Or what do you mean?

Not that rare. Most clubs have a recognised penalty taker. This is something that's been worked out in hours of training. Missing one, doesn't and shouldn't, mean that you don't take the next one.

Re the second point, I was having a friendly, but no overly subtle, dig at Potter. That given his qualifications you'd have though that we should be the last team to have the sort of mental weakness in front of goal exemplified by having your no 1 penalty taker running up the other end of the pitch when we get a penalty.

Bry Nylon · Mar 1, 2021

Frankly, I hope we never get another penalty ever again.

:shootself

Psychobilly freakout · Mar 1, 2021

Bry Nylon said:
Frankly, I hope we never get another penalty ever again.

So if it is 0-0 next saturday evening in the 93rd minute and Maupay goes down in the box under a heavy challenge, you would prefer the ref to wave the play on....

Uh_huh_him · Mar 1, 2021

Easy 10 said:
As for the question of who should take it, I think Gross should absolutely have got back on the horse, he's usually reliable. For him to go hiding, if thats what he did, is disappointing and only reinforces this teams mental frailty in front of goal.

I can remember Harry Kane missing a crucial penalty in front of the Kop a couple of years ago. They got another one just a few minutes later, he stepped up again, and absolutely buried it. THATS the mentality we needed.

Whilst I agree with this, his penalties are never convincing IMO/
Often straight down the middle missing the keeper's feet by an inch or so.

It maybe deliberate like Hemed's stutter and push to the keeper's wrong side, which I was convinced was poor technique, until about the 8th one.

DJ NOBO · Mar 1, 2021

blue-shifted said:
Yes. I don't get it. Players should be desperate to take a penalty. It doesn't matter if you've missed one, you've got another chance to score. The fact that our no 1 taker is running away speaks volumes about the soft mentality at the club at the moment. Confidence is absolutely shot.

The next manager we appoint, we should definitely make sure they've got some sort of background in player psychology, then this sort of thing almost certainly won't happen.

Potter is the king of emotional intelligence and psychology . Ashworth loves that stuff too - There’s a psychology department at the club..
Does it count for much where it matters? That’s a Different question.

blue-shifted · Mar 1, 2021

DJ NOBO said:
Potter is the king of emotional intelligence and psychology . Ashworth loves that stuff too - There’s a psychology department at the club..
Does it count for much where it matters? That’s a Different question.

And is the question i'm posing

Birdie Boy · Mar 1, 2021

Uh_huh_him said:
Whilst I agree with this, his penalties are never convincing IMO/
Often straight down the middle missing the keeper's feet by an inch or so.

Totally agree with this. When he kicks the ball he is leaning back and left and looks like he could do a John Terry at any moment. Still our best penalty taker which isn't saying a lot because I'm holding my breath whenever he takes one. I would like to know what Dunk is like at taking them and would be happy for him to step up. He doesn't look like he lacks confidence.

DJ NOBO · Mar 1, 2021

blue-shifted said:
And is the question i'm posing

I was thinking about this yesterday after someone put a link to the training centre staff. I was surprised to see it includes a team of psychology specialists. The club is very proud of this and sees it as progressive.
I wonder if it’s counter productive. Maybe it over complicates things for the players ? Makes players too soft? Or Maybe the psychologists aren’t getting close enough to the first team in a way that counts?
Whatever the case, You could smell the lack of confidence ahead of those penalties.
And Our strikers’ minds appear to be more mashed than any others I’ve seen at the club.
In a nutshell - If the intention was to employ psychologists to improve team performance, it’s not working.

Swansman · Mar 1, 2021

blue-shifted said:
Not that rare. Most clubs have a recognised penalty taker. This is something that's been worked out in hours of training. Missing one, doesn't and shouldn't, mean that you don't take the next one.

Re the second point, I was having a friendly, but no overly subtle, dig at Potter. That given his qualifications you'd have though that we should be the last team to have the sort of mental weakness in front of goal exemplified by having your no 1 penalty taker running up the other end of the pitch when we get a penalty.

Its pretty rare.

As for selecting who takes the penalties, different clubs got different strategies - Bielsa got two, when one misses the other takes over until he misses. Hodgson decides his penalty takers, Guardiola lets his players decide based on how they are feeling at the moment. Different strategies.

But worked out in hours of training? Doubt it. What professional football team are seriously practising penalties more than one or two sessions (ahead of cup games) per season? Its meaningless since penalties are all about psychology. If you want to improve your ability to poop in public toilet, taking a shit in your own one wont give you any advantage.

Swansman · Mar 1, 2021

DJ NOBO said:
I was thinking about this yesterday after someone put a link to the training centre staff. I was surprised to see it includes a team of psychology specialists. The club is very proud of this and sees it as progressive.
I wonder if it’s counter productive. Maybe it over complicates things for the players ? Makes players too soft? Or Maybe the psychologists aren’t getting close enough to the first team in a way that counts?
Whatever the case, You could smell the lack of confidence ahead of those penalties.
And Our strikers’ minds appear to be more mashed than any others I’ve seen at the club.
In a nutshell - If the intention was to employ psychologists to improve team performance, it’s not working.

Or maybe they are doing a fine job? The guys are working hard, wanting the ball, playing some very decent football, creating lots of chances and gets ****ed over, repeat x10. Yet they go out and do the same thing next week, no hanging heads, no hiding on the pitch, no giving up preemptively. Indicates strength if you ask me.

As for confidence, indeed its lacking but nothing but fluke will solve it. The staff and players and sports psychologists can make sure that the players dont bury themselves, give up or stop trying. That can be done. But the confidence part? Only winning really solves it. If you try to do something 60 times in two weeks, no psychologist is going to be able to convince you that it will happen the 61th time (you'd need a lobotomist, not a psychologist, for that), they can only convince you to try.

zefarelly · Mar 1, 2021

Some of our results and 'luck' have led me to believe it's all part of a betting scheme. you couldn't make it up.

BNthree · Mar 1, 2021

DJ NOBO said:
I was thinking about this yesterday after someone put a link to the training centre staff. I was surprised to see it includes a team of psychology specialists. The club is very proud of this and sees it as progressive.

I'd be pretty surprised if any of the current PL clubs didn't have some psychologists on their staff. It's standard practise nowadays.

blue-shifted · Mar 1, 2021

Swansman said:
Its pretty rare.

As for selecting who takes the penalties, different clubs got different strategies - Bielsa got two, when one misses the other takes over until he misses. Hodgson decides his penalty takers, Guardiola lets his players decide based on how they are feeling at the moment. Different strategies.

But worked out in hours of training? Doubt it. What professional football team are seriously practising penalties more than one or two sessions (ahead of cup games) per season? Its meaningless since penalties are all about psychology. If you want to improve your ability to poop in public toilet, taking a shit in your own one wont give you any advantage.

There were generations of England managers, who continually stuck the the mantra that you can't practice penalties, as it's different in a pressure situation. Hoddle is the one that stuck to this viewpoint the most vocally.

We lost every shoot out we entered for 20 years. Often with players who'd never taken one in practice, taking them in world cup knockout matches

Then, we got a manager who to his credit, said, "nope, that's bollocks, you can do a lot to replicate the pressure of a real environment, and in any case, the way to reduce the pressure is to have honed your skills with hours upon hours of practice".

And blow me, we won one.

Not practice penalties? Are you totally insane? Behind the scenes in a football club people pour over stats to try and get the most marginal of gains. In training in club football they practice the minutiae, to get every little edge possible to win a match. Why in a season with a record number of penalties, when we have an abysmal record of scoring from open play would you not have your best takers, practicing 100 or 1000 a day? What have they got better to do? How are you going to find a gain in training better than being confident with penalties?

WATFORD zero · Mar 1, 2021

I believe you have a designated penalty taker. You don't switch in the middle of the game, it is something that is decided and done in training. And I'm not sure the 'best' penalty taker is always the best choice. I believe that you can coach the player with 'most confidence' to practice penalties and become the designated one.

As has been pointed out, they have all played football at a very high standard for years and are all capable of being coached to put a ball where it needs to go from 12 yards. The real difference is in the head. Of course there will be occasional misses, but if you have chosen the right player they will step up and do it again 30 seconds later or 12 games later. I did think that Pascal was that player but evidently not. Dunk ?

Hemed was a freak, I still don't understand how he did it, (and he had occasional misses) but was always supremely confident. And I don't remember a lot of his penalties being firmly hit into those few inches just inside either post.

Pint of Ale and a Burger · Mar 1, 2021

Razzoo said:
I felt Welbeck should have done better with the rebound. probably should have headed it. he was slow on the uptake.

I would have like to have seen welbeck score from the second, obviously because it would be a goal but I am interested in why mason blew his whistle when welbeck was attempting the rebound shot.
If the ball had gone in I have a feeling it would have been another controversial moment.

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