[Albion] The official reason the free kick goal was disallowed

Stato · Feb 28, 2021

So the conversation with proponents of VAR goes something like...

- You need VAR. It can be used to judge whether a referee has made a clear and obvious error in awarding a penalty.
- That's good. Can it be used to judge whether a referee made a clear and obvious error by blowing his whistle for no good reason to rule out a valid goal from standing?
- Oh no, the referee's whistle can't be judged as wrong. If we allowed that, it wouldn't be fair because the other team would stop playing on hearing it.
- What if they didn't stop playing? What if they couldn't do anything to stop the goal anyway?
- The rules are the rules. It may not be fair, but its technically the correct decision.
- You mean like it used to be when the ref made a clear and obvious error in awarding a penalty?
- Yes, but we can now be fairer to everyone by correcting a decision using VAR.
- Like we could do with my example.
- Yes, but that's different. We can't go around using it to judge the referee's performance. The referee's word has to be final. Both sides have to accept that, although the officials cannot be infallible, everyone has to live with their decisions in order to have a game at all.
- Like everyone had to do for over a century before VAR?
- Yes.
- So we all accept that refereeing is not perfect, but live with it, because if we don't, it fundamentally undermines the spirit in which the game has to be played?
- Yes, that's right.
- Then why do we need VAR?
- Trust me. It will just make for a better game.
- What if it doesn't? What if everyone sees the detrimental effects an obsession with unobtainable levels of perfection has on the game they used to love, particularly when randomly applied to some incidents, but forbidden application to others? What if it results in less, rather than more acceptance of the human fallibility of those trying to hold the ring, whilst simultaneously slowing down the game, irritating players, disenchanting fans and confusing everyone?
- LOOK, LAMPARD'S SHOT AGAINST GERMANY WAS OVER THE LINE AND IT WASN'T BLOODY FAIR!
- Hurst's second in 1966?
- WHEN IT BENEFITS MY TEAM, THE REFEREE'S DECISION IS FINAL!
- And when it doesn't?
- Yes, VAR. Now you're beginning to understand.

Yoda · Feb 28, 2021

WhingForPresident said:
I'm interested to see what will happen to him after this considering he was 'stood down' mere weeks ago for his shocking decisions. Odds-on he'll be given the weekend off until it's blown over and he can go back to being a useless **** again. Prick shouldn't even be reffing Sunday league but these inept wankers really look after their own. Looking forward to his fellow **** Gallagher defending him and saying how he did everything by the book in the coming days.

https://youtu.be/t5XFWuLZBIs?t=74

Enjoy

PILTDOWN MAN · Feb 28, 2021

Bozza said:
I agree with all of that and as I've posted several times, I completely agree there is no rule that a defending team have to be permitted to get ready. However, for whatever reason, that largely has become the protocol.

When I said "error", I meant in terms of Mason's intentions, not in terms of the laws of the game. He has the ability to re-start the game with his whistle at the time he chooses to.

He thought WBA were "ready" and blew his whistle to re-start the game. Almost immediately he then saw that Johnstone was still on his near post lining up the wall, so blew again. The error was his own in blowing that first time as I believe that had he noted Johnstone's position, he would not have re-started the game when he did.

So the first blow was his error (but not against the laws of the game) which he attempted to remedy with his second blow, to stop the game.

If, IF what Dunk says is true and why wouldn't it be, can I take the freekick? That's it. You do not need anyone to be "ready" only the ref he was he blew. The guy is a cretin. On giving the goal WBA complained but didn't really go ballistic he should have just gone with it.

drew · Feb 28, 2021

I think you can ignore the statement from the PGMOL. Their remit is purely to protect their own arses and they'll release false statements to do so. They did exactly the same when Son was sent off for ankle tapping Gomez who then broke his ankle. PGMOL released a statement saying Son was correctly sent off because of the 'consequences' of his tackle. It was absurd because there is no rule about that and of course Son's red card was rescinded.

This is just another example of the depths that refereeing in this country have descended to under the stewardship of Mike Riley. PGMOL should be disbanded and the control of refs brought entirely under the FA. It won't be perfect but it would be a better system than we have now. Don't necessarily change their salaries but move refs up and down the leagues more frequently so they find their own level. That said, if they did do that, I'd be worried I'd be watching Mason ref my daughter's team!!!

upthealbion1970 · Feb 28, 2021

sydney · Feb 28, 2021

Seagull1989 said:
Should he have blown the first time ? Probably not but once he has the ball is in play.

He then panicked blew again and then didn’t know what to do. It was quite funny seeing him trying to get away from the players and buy some thinking time to try and get out of it.

Ultimately, it was the two missed penalties that cost us, not this decision.

yep one missed penalty is bad enough but 2 ....?? relegation fodder again now ffs.

Blinkers · Feb 28, 2021

Twice now, Dunk has asked the question of the referee “Can I take the kick?”. Against Liverpool and WBA. Both times the ref said “Yes” and blew the whistle. He put the ball in the net on both occasions. It’s a planned set piece and a damned good one! Who of us would expect Dunk to be taking a free kick from that position?

As to the refereeing, absolute shambles and agree with those who say that there’s no obligation for the defence to be set before restarting.

Stato · Feb 28, 2021

Yoda said:
https://youtu.be/t5XFWuLZBIs?t=74

Enjoy

If you are a referee and reach a point where even Dermot Gallagher can't find the tortuous logic needed to defend your decisions, it might be time to hang up your whistle.

GREASED WEASEL · Feb 28, 2021

blowing the whistle twice when the ball hasn't been played,is one thing

Blowing it for a second time when the ball is in the air,is ludicrous

Monumental **** up and lacking balls from the referee

sydney · Feb 28, 2021

he's been dropped from his next game (shelf utd v liverpool).....injury is the official tact.......bollox

PILTDOWN MAN · Feb 28, 2021

https://www.theargus.co.uk/sport/19124436.albion-contact-premier-league-pgmol-goal-ruled/

A Barber email sent

Pondicherry · Feb 28, 2021

I am pretty sure that at the time of the VAR intervention, they were judging the second whistle blows visually (when was the whistle in his mouth) and not with the sound. They replayed the side on view several times and the commentators said they were looking at offside. I think they were looking at the whistle position. Obviously whistle in mouth does not means whistle blown. To judge that accurately they would have needed a combination of snicko and goal line technology which they did not have. I suspect they could not clearly tell if the ball was over the line or not at the point of the second whistle and so should not have intervened.

vagabond · Feb 28, 2021

PILTDOWN MAN said:
https://www.theargus.co.uk/sport/19124436.albion-contact-premier-league-pgmol-goal-ruled/

A Barber email sent

Ah good, I did hope the club would make a formal enquiry on this. Unfortunately I don’t see it helping us now in terms of points, but it’s good there’s some sort of recourse.

I know some wanted GP to rant and rave about the decision after the game but this is a classier way I think.

teammelli · Feb 28, 2021

LamieRobertson said:
....then why did he then allow the goal the turnip

Calling someone a turnip is something I have never heard before and I will definitely start doing, thank you.

jessiejames · Feb 28, 2021

Bozza said:
The whole thing was farcical and I'm not sticking up for Mason one bit.

However Mason blew his whistle, the second time, to stop the game. VAR then had to determine whether the ball was over the line in order to allow the goal (ball was over the line, therefore the game was stopped anyway) or to disallow the "goal" (the ball was not over the line therefore the second whistle stopped the game).

The "error" was the first blow of the whistle since Mason did that believing West Brom were ready. When he saw they weren't he blew the second time. Whether the laws allow the defending team to be ready is neither here nor there really - Mason blew his whistle to stop the game, as any referee can do any time. They may get it wrong, but a blow of the whistle stops the game.

I believe he initially over-ruled himself and gave the goal because he realised, possibly with the help of Hoops in the VAR booth, that he HAD blown the whistle to re-start the game.

He then over-ruled himself, clearly with the help of our chum Hoops, when it was determined his second whistle blow took place while the ball had not crossed the goal line and was still live. The BBC MotD freeze of the action seemed to confirm that.

A referee can not stop a game if he has made a mistake. Play must continue until play has stopped due to infringement of ball going out of play.
The second whistle has no bearing on the fact Dunks goal was wrongly ruled out.

sams dad · Feb 28, 2021

Bozza said:
I agree with all of that and as I've posted several times, I completely agree there is no rule that a defending team have to be permitted to get ready. However, for whatever reason, that largely has become the protocol.

When I said "error", I meant in terms of Mason's intentions, not in terms of the laws of the game. He has the ability to re-start the game with his whistle at the time he chooses to.

He thought WBA were "ready" and blew his whistle to re-start the game. Almost immediately he then saw that Johnstone was still on his near post lining up the wall, so blew again. The error was his own in blowing that first time as I believe that had he noted Johnstone's position, he would not have re-started the game when he did.

So the first blow was his error (but not against the laws of the game) which he attempted to remedy with his second blow, to stop the game.

As posted on another thread, the laws of the game state -" The referee may not change a restart decision on realising that it is incorrect..............if play has restarted"
Edit. Beaten to it by Jessiejames who posted that on another thread.

jessiejames · Feb 28, 2021

GREASED WEASEL said:
blowing the whistle twice when the ball hasn't been played,is one thing

Blowing it for a second time when the ball is in the air,is ludicrous

Monumental **** up and lacking balls from the referee

And against the rules.

GREASED WEASEL · Feb 28, 2021

sams dad said:
As posted on another thread, the laws of the game state -" The referee may not change a restart decision on realising that it is incorrect..............if play has restarted"
Edit. Beaten to it by Jessiejames who posted that on another thread.

Back of the net!

And indeed it was

If we go down by a point,he will surpass Ron Challis

And that takes some doing!

Blackadder · Feb 28, 2021

teammelli said:
Calling someone a turnip is something I have never heard before and I will definitely start doing, thank you.

It was the favourite name for poor old Graham Taylor when he was England manager when he was bullied by The Sun newspaper

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[Albion] The official reason the free kick goal was disallowed

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