[Albion] Lee Mason

jcdenton08 · Mar 1, 2021

I don't see what the big debate is.

It's pretty clear what happened.

Dunk says "can I take it?", ref blows his whistle without realising the goalkeeper wasn't ready. Ref realises and blows his whistle again to stop play and try and "cancel" his mistake.

After that, he loses control, of the situation, realises he blew so the goal has to stand and gives the goal. VAR then pipes up to help with a reason (namely that he blew the second whistle before the ball crossed the line, therefore therefore that the goal shouldn't stand as the ball was dead) to save ref's blushes.

It was a poor mistake from Lee Mason and the goal should have stood.

albionalex · Mar 1, 2021

drew said:
And where is that in the Laws of the Game or even official Fifa guidelines?

https://www.massref.net/ussfdirectives/Free_Kick_and_Restart_Management.pdf

albionalex · Mar 1, 2021

theboybilly said:
A 'ceremonial' free kick. Here we are wanting the laws simplified and there you are clouding the issue. At no point did Mason, having blown his whistle, have the right to bring back play. His next involvement could only be if the ball went out of play, another infringement occurred - or Dunk scored. That's it, just those three occurrences. Why Hooper got involved I'll never know

Clouding the issue? 'Ceremonial' free kick is literally what it's called in the laws of the game.

Whether having blown his whistle for us to take the free kick he had any right to bring play back is a separate issue.

Acker79 · Mar 1, 2021

albionalex said:
https://www.massref.net/ussfdirectives/Free_Kick_and_Restart_Management.pdf

a) that's USSF directives not FIFA or the Laws of the Game. In the same way the Premier league implements some of the laws of the games differently, so do other leagues/football associations, so that directive existing in US soccer doesn't automatically apply.
b) It's from 2009. The rules have changed a bit since then.

EDIT: Here is a link to the FIFA/IFAB laws of the game 2020/21 https://resources.fifa.com/image/up...game-2020-21.pdf?cloudid=d6g1medsi8jrrd3e4imp a ctrl+f search for 'ceremonial' brings up 0 results.

drew · Mar 2, 2021

albionalex said:
Clouding the issue? 'Ceremonial' free kick is literally what it's called in the laws of the game.

Whether having blown his whistle for us to take the free kick he had any right to bring play back is a separate issue.

Can you find a link to that in the laws of the game?

albionalex · Mar 2, 2021

drew said:
Can you find a link to that in the laws of the game?

If you look above or Google it you will find it, although indeed the term 'ceremonial' does seem to have been removed from the latest IFAB guidelines.

DavePage · Mar 2, 2021

maybe the question should be, how many times has a referee blown a second time due to his change of mind? divide that answer into how many games are played worldwide each year. I would guess not many times ever.
so if that is the case why dont refs use that getup clause more often?
because its not in the rules, so stop trying to protect him.
wonder which team has the most bizarre decisions go against them this year?
but it all evens out over the season.
when we get the bad call, we lose the game
when we get the lucky call its when it doesn’t matter and we have the game in the bag anyway or no chance of getting back into the game

One Teddy Maybank · Mar 2, 2021

It was poor by Mason no doubt....

But there was an equally incompetent buffoon involved, who has previous form against us. The Bournemouth loving Hoops....

He is equally as incompetent, and arguably on a more regular basis.

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Horses Arse · Mar 2, 2021

One Teddy Maybank said:
It was poor by Mason no doubt....

But there was an equally incompetent buffoon involved, who has previous form against us. The Bournemouth loving Hoops....

He is equally as incompetent, and arguably on a more regular basis.

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Second time this season from him too

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Horses Arse · Mar 2, 2021

albionalex said:
https://www.massref.net/ussfdirectives/Free_Kick_and_Restart_Management.pdf

Interesting, lots I didn't know. Nothing about asking if the goalkeeper is ready though, just about the wall being far enough back and him blowing the whistle

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PILTDOWN MAN · Mar 2, 2021

albionalex said:
Actually, you kinda do.

If the free kick is not a 'quick' free kick (which it wasn't as their player held onto the ball for more than 10 seconds) then it is a 'ceremonial' free kick which can only be taken on the referee's whistle.

The ref should only blow his whistle once he's satisfied the wall is set up correctly

Kinda do, WTF does that mean? Ceremonial WTF does that mean? Not in the LAWS OF FOOTBALL. What yankydoodledandies want to make up is their doing, in this country we use the correct LAWS that haven't got bullshit terms ****ing ceremonial my arse.

No where in the Laws does it state at a freekick the keeper has to be ready so kinda DON'T

Springal · Mar 2, 2021

PILTDOWN MAN said:
Kinda do, WTF does that mean? Ceremonial WTF does that mean? Not in the LAWS OF FOOTBALL. What yankydoodledandies want to make up is their doing, in this country we use the correct LAWS that haven't got bullshit terms ****ing ceremonial my arse.

No where in the Laws does it state at a freekick the keeper has to be ready so kinda DON'T

If you think managing a game of football is as binary as just the laws of the game, then we might as well not have on-field referees and use VAR for everything.

He is right, part of the game management is if a team don't take a quick free kick then it is lining up a wall etc.

Otherwise every attacking team would just take a quick free kick while a wall is being set up

Yoda · Mar 2, 2021

Under normal circumstances, the referee will tell the captains before the match if he will allow any quick free kicks or not. Do we know what Mason advised his position on that would be?

Springal · Mar 2, 2021

There is probably / possibly a league 'guidance' that goes out every season that covers this, rather than games specifically. I doubt the ref calls in the captains every game to go over this kind of thing.
I reckon it is probably that if you want a quick free kick to ask and I will say yes / no

PILTDOWN MAN · Mar 2, 2021

Springal said:
If you think managing a game of football is as binary as just the laws of the game, then we might as well not have on-field referees and use VAR for everything.

He is right, part of the game management is if a team don't take a quick free kick then it is lining up a wall etc.

Otherwise every attacking team would just take a quick free kick while a wall is being set up

You completely miss the point of game management then.

When a referee indicates to the players he is going to restart on his whistle he only needs to satisfy himself the players are in correctly positioned in accordance with the Laws of the game not if they are ready to defend it. If the keeper is not ready when he blows the whistle then tough.

If you look at most freekicks the ref blows and the keeper is not set but as the taker of the freekick is generally four or so yards away from the ball this gives the keeper time to get in position. What happened here is a quick thinking player being penalised for the keeper not paying attention.

If you don't understand that you don't understand football. The etc part of your post just doesn't exist. You or anyone else can't make things up.

Springal · Mar 2, 2021

PILTDOWN MAN said:
You completely miss the point of game management then.

When a referee indicates to the players he is going to restart on his whistle he only needs to satisfy himself the players are in correctly positioned in accordance with the Laws of the game not if they are ready to defend it. If the keeper is not ready when he blows the whistle then tough.

If you look at most freekicks the ref blows and the keeper is not set but as the taker of the freekick is generally four or so yards away from the ball this gives the keeper time to get in position. What happened here is a quick thinking player being penalised for the keeper not paying attention.

If you don't understand that you don't understand football. The etc part of your post just doesn't exist. You or anyone else can't make things up.

I've already said he made a mistake by blowing the second time - up until that point everything was correct game management.

PILTDOWN MAN · Mar 2, 2021

Springal said:
There is probably / possibly a league 'guidance' that goes out every season that covers this, rather than games specifically. I doubt the ref calls in the captains every game to go over this kind of thing.
I reckon it is probably that if you want a quick free kick to ask and I will say yes / no

Of course he doesn't. The ref can't decide to make Laws up. The quick freekick is part of the game. The ref can only stop a quick freekick if he has to deal with an incident such as disciplinary issues, substitutes or injury. The players can indicate to the ref they are wanting to take it quickly thus meaning the ref will not insist on the opposing players moving the required distance away and will not go to where the freekick was given. They will in fact move away from the area so to get the best view..

The ref has to have a reason for NOT allowing the kick. Generally the attacking team will want the correct distance etc. What you have to think here is most challenges around the box these days involve the player being fouled, first squealing, then rolling about uncontrollably, then busily looking for a mark on his body nowhere near where the contact is meanwhile waving a imaginary card at the ref. This means the ref now has reason to stop the quick freekick.

PILTDOWN MAN · Mar 2, 2021

Yoda said:
Under normal circumstances, the referee will tell the captains before the match if he will allow any quick free kicks or not. Do we know what Mason advised his position on that would be?

No he won't it's not his position to dictate such things. He may say if you want to take a quick freekick this is what I want you to indicate to me but he can't rule out part of the Laws of the game because he doesn't want the hassle. Regardless here anyway it wasn't a quick freekick. The wall was set Dunk asked he said yes and blew.

mreprice · Mar 2, 2021

The international feed had goal line technology saying the ball was a couple of feet before the line when the second whistle went. But it didn't show how they decided when the whistle went.

I also think the second whistle started very quietly but got a lot louder at the end which was even more confusing.

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Muzzman · Mar 2, 2021

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