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Brentford stop taking the knee.



Sheebo

Sheebo

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2003
29,287
Neville's Breakfast said:
And prosecutions, so these people understand that writing it on the internet is the same as shouting it in the street ie actual action to replace feel good, zero cost symbolism. I’m not bothered if the players want to continue taking the knee for the rest of time, it’s just pointless compared to actually cracking down on the perpetrators of the abuse. The only thing I find irritating about it is the Sky commentators earnestly telling us how important it is in the fight against racial abuse; it isn’t.
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Completely agree mate. Also, as an example close to us, palace fans have gone from mindless homophobia (they seem to have finally got the idea that it’s wrong - well most), to slander and libellous lies about Lewis Dunk - criminal record and fine for all who have done it - job done. Make an example of a few idiots and word will get around...
 




N

Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,423
Oxton, Birkenhead
NooBHA said:
This isn't about individuals. This is about doing something as opposed to doing nothing..

What else do thy do that is visible to fans. The little Adverts on Sky are not being heeded by fans. That's evident.
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That’s easy. This is a problem that needs to be solved by legislation. It is a problem caused by different legal treatment given to abuse when it is in the street compared to when it is on the internet. It is a problem for all of us and without legal back up I am worried that the people targeted by taking the knee just see it as a challenge. I am more than happy for it to continue (I don’t even notice it anymore) but for those reasons I question its effectiveness.
 


BadFish

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
17,121
All of a sudden we seem to have decided that taking a knee is about the online abuse that black players have recently experienced.

This is surely only one part of the racism experienced, I can't help but feel it is disingenuous to limit the idea that black lives matter to online abuse. It is so much more than that.

Having said that it is great that taking the knee has generated discussion about the online abuse and may even (in part) lead to a change in policy or legislation to combat it.
 




Sheebo

Sheebo

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2003
29,287
Neville's Breakfast said:
Do you think she might have been dropping you a hint ? :whistle:
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Haha no she was cringing at people tbh - and it’s all for show from the same old people...! I got her a necklace which she doesn’t like so I’m already winning x
 




N

NooBHA

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2015
8,584
Neville's Breakfast said:
That’s easy. This is a problem that needs to be solved by legislation. It is a problem caused by different legal treatment given to abuse when it is in the street compared to when it is on the internet. It is a problem for all of us and without legal back up I am worried that the people targeted by taking the knee just see it as a challenge. I am more than happy for it to continue (I don’t even notice it anymore) but for those reasons I question its effectiveness.
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Code:

I was the one who said make it compulsory . That's a step to Legislation. But as you can see. The mere suggestion of anything remotely legislative and people are up in arms.

The issue of Racism and Inclusion isn't about what we are willing to give. It's about what people are "Willing to Give Up"
 


sydney

sydney

tinky ****in winky
Jul 11, 2003
17,754
town full of eejits
Lenny Rider said:
All online abuse Weststander old boy. 👍

Ian Wright was ‘disappointed’ his racist on line abuser didn’t get a custodial sentence, when my daughter Amy was in Love Island, which she went into with her eyes open, a 14 year old from the Midlands sent her an online death threat, in which he said he wanted to cut off her head and gouge her eyes out, the Police on detecting who it was, merely spoke to him and then took no further action, not even a caution.

All abusive trolling needs to be outlawed, if we get into a situation where we deem racist abuse more ‘important’ than abuse against women then we are on a rocky road.
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no mileage in that mate .....no mileage at all.
 


sydney

sydney

tinky ****in winky
Jul 11, 2003
17,754
town full of eejits
NooBHA said:
Code:

I was the one who said make it compulsory . That's a step to Legislation. But as you can see. The mere suggestion of anything remotely legislative and people are up in arms.

The issue of Racism and Inclusion isn't about what we are willing to give. It's about what people are "Willing to Give Up"
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most people are willing to give up absolutely nothing .....most people are getting rinsed on a daily basis , the ones who can afford to give up anything meaningful in a financial sense are the ones who will employ a p.a and create a persona for themselves promoting giving whilst giving absolutely nothing to anyone ....and writing the costs off in the progress.
 






C

Charity Shield 1910

New member
Jan 4, 2021
556
NooBHA said:
Code:

I was the one who said make it compulsory . That's a step to Legislation. But as you can see. The mere suggestion of anything remotely legislative and people are up in arms.

The issue of Racism and Inclusion isn't about what we are willing to give. It's about what people are "Willing to Give Up"
Click to expand...


From personal experience, I can say that 25 years ago, the issue of race was of no importance in the UK except for a very small amount of people who we considered strange individuals. There is also a nuance. Some people say racist things but they themselves are not racist, but probably are just being silly. For example there were a group of black girls who at school in the 80's called someone I knew racist names that essentially went to her being"black on the outside but white on the inside". They were getting at her because she was, what many would say is mixed race. But really they were getting at her because she wanted to get to university and get a good job. The person I knew just ignored them at school, had her own friends and treated people as she found them. A very balanced individual she was to. She also wasn't "mixed race" as people used to insist on labelling her, she was a person, and people making an issue of the pigmentation of her skin were frankly just odd.

I also particularly remember when her brother became 5 and went to school, the brother speaking to his mum because another little kid had made an observation that he was not black or white. His mum just pointed out that whilst he had not noticed, but his mum and dad had different skin colours. Then we carried on the day. I think the country has regressed since those days and BLM with their failure to record the history of slavery accurately do not help IMHO. However I will agree to disagree with those who think they are doing a good job.
 


N

NooBHA

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2015
8,584
Charity Shield 1910 said:
From personal experience, I can say that 25 years ago, the issue of race was of no importance in the UK except for a very small amount of people who we considered strange individuals. There is also a nuance. Some people say racist things but they themselves are not racist, but probably are just being silly. For example there were a group of black girls who at school in the 80's called someone I knew racist names that essentially went to her being"black on the outside but white on the inside". They were getting at her because she was, what many would say is mixed race. But really they were getting at her because she wanted to get to university and get a good job. The person I knew just ignored them at school, had her own friends and treated people as she found them. A very balanced individual she was to. She also wasn't "mixed race" as people used to insist on labelling her, she was a person, and people making an issue of the pigmentation of her skin were frankly just odd.

I also particularly remember when her brother became 5 and went to school, the brother speaking to his mum because another little kid had made an observation that he was not black or white. His mum just pointed out that whilst he had not noticed, but his mum and dad had different skin colours. Then we carried on the day. I think the country has regressed since those days and BLM with their failure to record the history of slavery accurately do not help IMHO. However I will agree to disagree with those who think they are doing a good job.
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I read your post a few times here but each time I read it. I took something different from it bit maybe it's just me misunderstanding it.

However what I ultimately took from that message was - If they don't rock the boat they should be alright.

Ah well. I give up. Best not to rock the boat.
 




C

Charity Shield 1910

New member
Jan 4, 2021
556
NooBHA said:
I read your post a few times here but each time I read it. I took something different from it bit maybe it's just me misunderstanding it.

However what I ultimately took from that message was - If they don't rock the boat they should be alright.

Ah well. I give up. Best not to rock the boat.
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You have misunderstood the post. I say that most people are good people, and to p off good people by half truth's, and a deliberate false reading of history to try and make a modern political point, puts people off. That is the accusation I make against BLM. I also say that the preoccupation by a tiny minority (but a large section of the press because it gets clicks on a website or fills up air time) of the pigmentation of somebody's skin, is a retrograde step that is insulting to many people, no mater the pigmentation of somebodies skin. I thirdly say read history with an open mind, empathy and try not to look for things that may help "your side" of an argument. Read it to discover and open your mind to a greater understanding of how the world has evolved, and in my case, just for interest sake. I fourthly point out that the use of slavery to set one pigmentation of skin colour against the other is beyond idiotic given that all skin colours, races and religion have engaged in it. That is why I would not "take the knee". However I respect those who form a different view because they think it does some good. Mainly however, I would like you to think that to be defined by the colour of your skin is so absurd that it should be treated as such. Just think of the 5 year old boy who asked his mum about his skin colour because another innocent 5 year old had observed it was different. Neither child thought much about it, and the parents dealt with it in just the right fashion. Explaining the observation and then just getting on with living.
 




M

Mo Gosfield

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2010
6,284
Pavilionaire said:
This situation reminds me of the 'Clap for the NHS' situation, where even the founder of that realised it was the right time to end it, and pretty much everyone stopped doing it at the same time (after 10 weeks I believe).

The NHS have been even more busy in the second lockdown but they know how united the nation is behind them.

In the same way, taking the knee needs to end simultaneously - maybe on the first anniversary - otherwise there are going to be weeks of debate of whether clubs are tight to stop doing it, and the strength of the act solidarity - will be lost.
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Agree with that and then we can all get back to giving our support to ' Kick it Out ' which has been working tirelessly for years, with no political bias, to try and eradicate prejudice in our game. Reading some of the comments on here you would think that it has never existed. This bandwagon movement, with dubious motives, has hijacked and overshadowed a worthy and credible organisation that has the support of all of football.
 




RossyG

RossyG

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2014
2,630
Mo Gosfield said:
Agree with that and then we can all get back to giving our support to ' Kick it Out ' which has been working tirelessly for years, with no political bias, to try and eradicate prejudice in our game. Reading some of the comments on here you would think that it has never existed. This bandwagon movement, with dubious motives, has hijacked and overshadowed a worthy and credible organisation that has the support of all of football.
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Kick It Out was too involved for the virtue signallers. Far easier to upload a picture of themselves "taking the knee" on Instagram and then sit back and watch as their empty gesture garners upvotes.
 




N

NooBHA

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2015
8,584
Charity Shield 1910 said:
You have misunderstood the post. I say that most people are good people, and to p off good people by half truth's, and a deliberate false reading of history to try and make a modern political point, puts people off. That is the accusation I make against BLM. I also say that the preoccupation by a tiny minority (but a large section of the press because it gets clicks on a website or fills up air time) of the pigmentation of somebody's skin, is a retrograde step that is insulting to many people, no mater the pigmentation of somebodies skin. I thirdly say read history with an open mind, empathy and try not to look for things that may help "your side" of an argument. Read it to discover and open your mind to a greater understanding of how the world has evolved, and in my case, just for interest sake. I fourthly point out that the use of slavery to set one pigmentation of skin colour against the other is beyond idiotic given that all skin colours, races and religion have engaged in it. That is why I would not "take the knee". However I respect those who form a different view because they think it does some good. Mainly however, I would like you to think that to be defined by the colour of your skin is so absurd that it should be treated as such. Just think of the 5 year old boy who asked his mum about his skin colour because another innocent 5 year old had observed it was different. Neither child thought much about it, and the parents dealt with it in just the right fashion. Explaining the observation and then just getting on with living.
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It is getting worse. You truly believe the Agenda that Slavery is not race related simply because there has been black on black or white in white slavery through the course of History.

No one denies that such things happened. But in Africa when Blacks enslaved other Blacks they did not enslave them due to the colour of their Skin. When the Romans pes say enslaved other nations. They did so because they conquered them through war.

When the British and Americans and Spanish etc enslaved people it was done Racially and if you are in denial over this then I can't help you.
 






lawros left foot

lawros left foot

Glory hunting since 1969
Jun 11, 2011
13,727
Worthing
My brother in law is a racist. He admits he is. He is also an armchair Liverpool fan, he goes to about one game a season.

He now refuses to watch football on the telly, because he objects to players taking the knee.
For that reason alone, I’m all for it.
 


C

Charity Shield 1910

New member
Jan 4, 2021
556
NooBHA said:
It is getting worse. You truly believe the Agenda that Slavery is not race related simply because there has been black on black or white in white slavery through the course of History.

No one denies that such things happened. But in Africa when Blacks enslaved other Blacks they did not enslave them due to the colour of their Skin. When the Romans pes say enslaved other nations. They did so because they conquered them through war.

When the British and Americans and Spanish etc enslaved people it was done Racially and if you are in denial over this then I can't help you.
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I don't know where to start with this one, other than to point out that there are different races, religions and society in Africa and there always have been. I also would say the motivation of most slavery is for free labour. But let's not get sidetracked. BLM have a political agenda that many do not agree with and certainly their grasp of history is beyond one dimentional to be myopic. It is offensive to many people but for that reason useful to the press. People, no matter the colour of skin are then the casualties. I'm going to end here. I think you mean well, and I just disagree with you. Do tho think on those two kids.
 


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