Minister Rules Out Vaccine Passports In UK

beorhthelm · Mar 25, 2021

The Wizard said:
Because naturally, people who are under 40 have an exceptionally low mortality rate and so you are much less likely to feel like you need the vaccine, I know people who are hesitant because they feel the risk of the vaccine and side effects are higher than the actual virus itself and feel it’s unethical to give people like me a vaccine when other countries around Europe can’t even vaccinate their vulnerable.

we need the whole population to take up vaccine, or herd immunity doesnt work, the virus persists through the population reinfecting, mutating and so on. restrictions to protect the vulnerable will continue indefinitely. the ethical reason is spurious, not protecting our population does not mean other populations will vaccinate vulnerable groups.

The Wizard · Mar 25, 2021

beorhthelm said:
we need the whole population to take up vaccine, or herd immunity doesnt work, the virus persists through the population reinfecting, mutating and so on. restrictions to protect the vulnerable will continue indefinitely. the ethical reason is spurious, not protecting our population does not mean other populations will vaccinate vulnerable groups.

Herd immunity does not require everyone to be immune, that would be a zero covid strategy which has been categorically ruled out and is impossible, the vaccine doesn’t stop you getting the virus, it just stops it being a serious illness, for most people under 40 those facts are pretty much already true.

To be honest the points you are making are besides the point anyway I’m not arguing whether people should take the vaccine, I’m arguing everyone should be given a choice and telling people they need to get a vaccine in order to be ‘allowed’ to live normally is pure and simply coercion and will without shadow of a doubt decrease take up.

beorhthelm · Mar 25, 2021

The Wizard said:
Herd immunity does not require everyone to be immune, that would be a zero covid strategy which has been categorically ruled out and is impossible, the vaccine doesn’t stop you getting the virus, it just stops it being a serious illness, for most people under 40 those facts are pretty much already true.

herd immunity needs 70-90% of the population covered, so most of the non-vulnerable groups need to be in there. its great giving people a choice when enough people make a positive choice. if people want to resist on misguided principle and there is so many that the vaccination programme becomes ineffective, we'll have restrictions for longer until the vulnerable population are naturally immune or dead.

beorhthelm · Mar 25, 2021

should point out this passport thing is most likely kite flying. the report considering it is not due until June, by which time most the population would have had first jab. so likely it becomes unnecessary, unless some large group decide they wont get vaccinated then a passport is deemed necessary. its really in our hands, if the voices against vaccination grow, the chances of vaccine passports in the country grow.

Kinky Gerbil · Mar 25, 2021

beorhthelm said:
in theory. which will nice for those over 50, except those that cant have one (those that wont can jog on). people will find they cant go to the vaccine only pub, but wont go to the mask only pub either. so not go out at all for another few months. we also need to stop the massively costly testing regime, its short term and not viable for long.

That’s another issue, we are all assuming testing will be free?

Would you pay x amount for a night out?

£5/10 maybe? But above that ?

Weststander · Mar 25, 2021

beorhthelm said:
should point out this passport thing is most likely kite flying. the report considering it is not due until June, by which time most the population would have had first jab. so likely it becomes unnecessary, unless some large group decide they wont get vaccinated then a passport is deemed necessary. its really in our hands, if the voices against vaccination grow, the chances of vaccine passports in the country grow.

Internally, yes.

But I wonder what the multinational airlines and EU inwards border controls will want from Brits on arrival?

I’ve listened to travel and European experts in the last few days, who unanimously have said that a sheet of paper or the little card we’re given probably won’t be accepted, as they can so easily be counterfeited.

Kinky Gerbil · Mar 25, 2021

https://mobile.twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1375170967526375424?s=20

If that’s the plan there is no reason to not open pubs/clubs now as people will be vaccinated or clear tests

Chicken Run · Mar 26, 2021

beorhthelm said:
should point out this passport thing is most likely kite flying. the report considering it is not due until June, by which time most the population would have had first jab. so likely it becomes unnecessary, unless some large group decide they wont get vaccinated then a passport is deemed necessary. its really in our hands, if the voices against vaccination grow, the chances of vaccine passports in the country grow.

You’re assuming then that one jab is enough then, my second jab isn’t due till 15 June and I’m 51, so anyone under that age won’t be fully vaccinated until August?

e77 · Mar 27, 2021

Bearing in mind due to my age I haven't had my first vaccine yet, and at 47 there are a load more people behind me in the queue, it could be autumn before anyone who wants it has a second vaccine. Not entirely sure having an evening in a pub where I can't leave my seat is worth having two Covid tests.

Kinky Gerbil · Mar 27, 2021

Chicken Run said:
You’re assuming then that one jab is enough then, my second jab isn’t due till 15 June and I’m 51, so anyone under that age won’t be fully vaccinated until August?

I can see us going along the lines of 1 jab is enough for certain things/age groups.

e77 said:
Bearing in mind due to my age I haven't had my first vaccine yet, and at 47 there are a load more people behind me in the queue, it could be autumn before anyone who wants it has a second vaccine. Not entirely sure having an evening in a pub where I can't leave my seat is worth having two Covid tests.

It’s not, last summer was awful for anything “fun”

As I’ve said before, if it’s a repeat of last summer, I’ll wait till things are back to normal before I venture out again.

loz · Mar 27, 2021

Kinky Gerbils said:
I can see us going along the lines of 1 jab is enough for certain things/age groups.

It’s not, last summer was awful for anything “fun”

As I’ve said before, if it’s a repeat of last summer, I’ll wait till things are back to normal before I venture out again.

Last summer was ok most pubs I went into were all but normal. The barmaid at my local actually said they prefer table service as it’s more sociable.

dazzer6666 · Mar 27, 2021

All being well, within the UK we’ll soon have enough people vaccinated to ensure that the NHS will be able to cope easily as the number protected from serious illness is essentially the vast majority. Anyone who hasn’t had the vaccine once it’s been widely offered (to all) is to my mind then taking the risk upon themselves - not sure why proving you have had the vaccine should be necessary to go into a bar, cinema or whatever because the depth of vaccinations will be such that without it you’ll be primarily risking your own health, not others.

dazzer6666 · Mar 27, 2021

loz said:
Last summer was ok most pubs I went into were all but normal. The barmaid at my local actually said they prefer table service as it’s more sociable.

Agree completely, it was far more civilised and the staff I spoke to preferred it.

LamieRobertson · Mar 28, 2021

https://twitter.com/rickythomasblog/status/1375914682981187588?s=21

Made their minds up already?

Tom Hark Preston Park · Mar 28, 2021

loz said:
Last summer was ok most pubs I went into were all but normal. The barmaid at my local actually said they prefer table service as it’s more sociable.

Have to say as I customer last summer I found it far better than I thought it would be. It wasn't like like pre-covid Europe where you more or less had to stand on the table wearing your upturned empty glass on your head to attract some snotty waiter's attention. Last summer there seemed to be some unspoken acknowledgent that good table service was in everybody's happiest interest. I thought it worked really well, up to and including most decent pubs being more than happy to do pay-as-you-go, or customise split the final bill any number of ways

beorhthelm · Mar 28, 2021

Tom Hark said:
Have to say as I customer last summer I found it far better than I thought it would be. It wasn't like like pre-covid Europe where you more or less had to stand on the table wearing your upturned empty glass on your head to attract some snotty waiter's attention. Last summer there seemed to be some unspoken acknowledgent that good table service was in everybody's happiest interest. I thought it worked really well, up to and including most decent pubs being more than happy to do pay-as-you-go, or customise split the final bill any number of ways

it did work ok. tech make alot of the service easier these days, tablets for orders, readers for cards. my mate still managed to pull the barmaid on a visit too.

Tom Hark Preston Park · Mar 28, 2021

beorhthelm said:
it did work ok. tech make alot of the service easier these days, tablets for orders, readers for cards. my mate still managed to pull the barmaid on a visit too.

Looking forward to the Tripadvisor review already :thumbsup:

Hugo Rune · Apr 2, 2021

The fact that Corbyn is standing shoulder to shoulder with Iain Duncan-Smith alongside around 11% of other MPs against vaccine passports tells me that they are a very good idea indeed and could really get our economy going whilst avoiding a third wave.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56605598

I think Bojo is the worst PM this country has seen for decades & decades but he’ll have my backing if he goes for the passport plan.

Justice · Apr 2, 2021

Hugo Rune said:
The fact that Corbyn is standing shoulder to shoulder with Iain Duncan-Smith alongside around 11% of other MPs against vaccine passports tells me that they are a very good idea indeed and could really get our economy going whilst avoiding a third wave.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56605598

I think Bojo is the worst PM this country has seen for decades & decades but he’ll have my backing if he goes for the passport plan.

So you want some jumped up **** asking you for papers everywhere you go? The Nazi’s had the same idea.

The Wizard · Apr 2, 2021

Very happy to say as a healthy adult in my mid twenties I am willing to reject the vaccine as a form of protest, if vaccine passports are brought in, I’m willing to be discriminated against for my right to choose, if that offends you then quite frankly I couldn’t care less, I’ve been undecided about whether I would take it ever since reports of this vaccine passport came out and I’m not going to just go along and allow myself to be coerced with threats against me being able to do normal things.

Its utterly unbelievable they have worn people down mentally so much that people are willing to accept this invasive, discriminatory dystopian crap, this is what they’ve done, they’ve taken everyone’s hope, happiness and freedom to the extent that people are actually seeing this as a good thing.

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Minister Rules Out Vaccine Passports In UK

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