[Albion] Goals conceded from deflections

blue-shifted · Dec 21, 2020

Bogle yesterday, Madison a couple of weeks ago.

My memory is rubbish, but I vaguely remember there have been a couple more. Am I right?

Billy the Fish · Dec 21, 2020

Definitely others. Webster's dangling leg is a deflection magnet.

zefarelly · Dec 21, 2020

Manure free kick?
one of chelseas?

Garry Nelson's Left Foot · Dec 21, 2020

Billy the Fish said:
Webster's dangling leg is a deflection magnet.

It is isn't it? Reminds of Dunk being an own goal machine a few years back.

Icy Gull · Dec 21, 2020

Said exactly that after Bogle’s goal. Opposition deflections end up in our net. Ours deflect for a corner or a goal kick. We really have had shit luck all season and it’s taken it’s toll on the player’s confidence

Swansman · Dec 21, 2020

Icy Gull said:
Said exactly that after Bogle’s goal. Opposition deflections end up in our net. Ours deflect for a corner or a goal kick. We really have had shit luck all season and it’s taken it’s toll on the player’s confidence

Yup. I really hate blaming anything on "bad luck" but at least very few would say that the team has been lucky this season.

Bold Seagull · Dec 21, 2020

I've watched their goal a couple of times now, and worryingly for me, we aren't as caught out as I first thought at the time. They have 2 on 4 in the box, supporting players are well covered by Lallana, White, Bissouma all running back, I think Trossard is tracking the player to the left of the shot and is marginally ahead.

Where we're conceding deflected goals to me is lack of positive closing down, and this might be a result of communication. Bogle is pretty much the only player that can score unless McGoldrick produces something special to beat Dunk and the keeper from a narrow position. If you watch the goal back, I don't once see Webster look to see where Bogle is, perhaps he is too focussed on covering Dunk, but March is pretty much in no man's land at this point, and really should be screaming at Webster 'right shoulder' as loud as he friggin well can.

The deflection imho in the case didn't come through our miss fortune, it came simply because we weren't tight enough.

Bold Seagull · Dec 21, 2020

Bold Seagull said:
I've watched their goal a couple of times now, and worryingly for me, we aren't as caught out as I first thought at the time. They have 2 on 4 in the box, supporting players are well covered by Lallana, White, Bissouma all running back, I think Trossard is tracking the player to the left of the shot and is marginally ahead.

Where we're conceding deflected goals to me is lack of positive closing down, and this might be a result of communication. Bogle is pretty much the only player that can score unless McGoldrick produces something special to beat Dunk and the keeper from a narrow position. If you watch the goal back, I don't once see Webster look to see where Bogle is, perhaps he is too focussed on covering Dunk, but March is pretty much in no man's land at this point, and really should be screaming at Webster 'right shoulder' as loud as he friggin well can.

The deflection imho in the case didn't come through our miss fortune, it came simply because we weren't tight enough.
View attachment 131637

You go on a couple of frames, and Bogle simply has the freedom of our penalty area still. This is a bit alarming, because it's not players not getting back, it's about being tight and taking responsibility. It was a positive move imho moving March to LB to bring on more attacking players, but what happened here is a defensive nightmare. Webster never once looks at Bogle, and March, I don't know what March is doing!? :shrug:

Tom Hark Preston Park · Dec 21, 2020

Swansman said:
Yup. I really hate blaming anything on "bad luck" but at least very few would say that the team has been lucky this season.

I'd agree with that. Just about everything that COULD hit the woodwork HAS hit the woodwork. And WAY too many unfortunate deflections have been unfortunately deflected past the keeper and into the net. Cruel old game sometimes

blue-shifted · Dec 21, 2020

Bold Seagull said:
I've watched their goal a couple of times now, and worryingly for me, we aren't as caught out as I first thought at the time. They have 2 on 4 in the box, supporting players are well covered by Lallana, White, Bissouma all running back, I think Trossard is tracking the player to the left of the shot and is marginally ahead.

Where we're conceding deflected goals to me is lack of positive closing down, and this might be a result of communication. Bogle is pretty much the only player that can score unless McGoldrick produces something special to beat Dunk and the keeper from a narrow position. If you watch the goal back, I don't once see Webster look to see where Bogle is, perhaps he is too focussed on covering Dunk, but March is pretty much in no man's land at this point, and really should be screaming at Webster 'right shoulder' as loud as he friggin well can.

The deflection imho in the case didn't come through our miss fortune, it came simply because we weren't tight enough.
View attachment 131637

I see what you're saying ... but .....

Pretend for a moment you don't know what the goal was like and just look at that (first) still in isolation .........

The threat looks to me that Bogle could make a darting run towards goal ...... exactly where the arrow you've got is pointing .... and flick home with a first time effort. I'd say that Webby and Solly position is pretty good, looking to close the space between defenders and keeper.

When the ball is cut back, the chances of Bogle scoring are dramatically reduced. Webby and Sanchez look to have it covered.

But it deflects and goes in.

The point i'm making is that defenders have to make choices and those choices are always about managing varying degrees of risk. In this case i'd say the Webby and Solly made the percentage decision in covering the space in behind.

I think we were unlucky here

Bold Seagull · Dec 21, 2020

blue-shifted said:
I see what you're saying ... but .....

Pretend for a moment you don't know what the goal was like and just look at that (first) still in isolation .........

The threat looks to me that Bogle could make a darting run towards goal ...... exactly where the arrow you've got is pointing .... and flick home with a first time effort. I'd say that Webby and Solly position is pretty good, looking to close the space between defenders and keeper.

When the ball is cut back, the chances of Bogle scoring are dramatically reduced. Webby and Sanchez look to have it covered.

But it deflects and goes in.

The point i'm making is that defenders have to make choices and those choices are always about managing varying degrees of risk. In this case i'd say the Webby and Solly made the percentage decision in covering the space in behind.

I think we were unlucky here

I just don't think Webster ever really knows Bogle is there until the pull back, and by then he's not got a chance to get tight to him, Bogle has all the time in the world to take a touch and then shoot. Webster only needs to be one pace closer and he probably blocks the shot.

These are the fine margins in the PL. A step here or there, ball watching a bit, they cost you a goal when you were completely on top.

Badger Boy · Dec 21, 2020

Solly doesn't have defensive instincts, which isn't unreasonable as he's a winger being pegged back. But Webster is a defender by trade, his reaction is absolutely incredible. First of all he doesn't know what's happening around him and then when Bogle gets it, Webster stands off him and then dangles a leg when the shot is struck. It's really, really bad defending. Again. I'm very frustrated by Webster because overall I like him but he's often a liability defensively.

blue-shifted · Dec 21, 2020

Badger Boy said:
Solly doesn't have defensive instincts, which isn't unreasonable as he's a winger being pegged back. But Webster is a defender by trade, his reaction is absolutely incredible. First of all he doesn't know what's happening around him and then when Bogle gets it, Webster stands off him and then dangles a leg when the shot is struck. It's really, really bad defending. Again. I'm very frustrated by Webster because overall I like him but he's often a liability defensively.

Well, he's at least got to attempt the block surely

nwgull · Dec 21, 2020

Tom Hark said:
I'd agree with that. Just about everything that COULD hit the woodwork HAS hit the woodwork. And WAY too many unfortunate deflections have been unfortunately deflected past the keeper and into the net. Cruel old game sometimes

Hitting the woodwork isn't bad luck; it's missing the target.

Bold Seagull · Dec 21, 2020

nwgull said:
Hitting the woodwork isn't bad luck; it's missing the target.

Sometimes I think it's unlucky. Vicente dribbling through (Watford's?) entire team then smashing a shot onto the bar I thought was unlucky.

Jahanbakhsh heading onto the bar with an empty goal in front of him from 2 yards, not so much.

blue-shifted · Dec 21, 2020

Bold Seagull said:
Sometimes I think it's unlucky. Vicente dribbling through (Watford's?) entire team then smashing a shot onto the bar I thought was unlucky.

Jahanbakhsh heading onto the bar with an empty goal in front of him from 2 yards, not so much.

Derby, but yes I was going to make the same point. It's further evidence, if needed, that we're not far away

Tom Hark Preston Park · Dec 21, 2020

nwgull said:
Hitting the woodwork isn't bad luck; it's missing the target.

Tiny wee margins tho eh? Repeated often enough, I'd maintain it DOES amount to rank bad luck. IMHO, like. Whatever it is, hopefully it will run it's course sometime soon

The Optimist · Dec 21, 2020

Billy the Fish said:
Definitely others. Webster's dangling leg is a deflection magnet.

Is it bad luck or poor defending? Once or twice could be bad luck but when it happens often enough it starts to look like bad defending. Either block it properly or let the keeper have a chance of saving it.

Terry Butcher Tribute Act · Dec 21, 2020

It's not bad luck if our blocks are too slow and not effective, surely that's just poor defending

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Worried Man Blues · Dec 21, 2020

A lot of defenders, not just ours, seem to turn their backs on a shot, like they will be maimed if it hits them, even in a wall where they are positioned to stop a shot they turn away, stop it!

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