[Brighton] RIP Debenhams

Swansman · Dec 1, 2020

blue-shifted said:
Correct on all those.

It was far from clear your point was an environmental one. Seemed more of a criticism of the youth of today's obsession with spending their time on ipads. Thanks for clarifying

What I'm saying is that it is possible to dislike and criticise something and still be more or less forced to be a part of it.

Brian Parsons · Dec 1, 2020

Lyndhurst 14 said:
Don't for get all the Bet Freds, William Hills and Ladbrokes who are always ready to help you unload even more cash during depressed economic times

How remiss. I used to sit in Costa having a coffee and watch known unemployed men popping from pub to bookies and back to pub. Made me angry because my RAF pension was being taxed to help finance them. But we're drifting off topic, sos.

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essbee1 · Dec 1, 2020

Brian Parsons said:
The Debenhams in the Metro centre at Gateshead closed a long time ago and that was a big one in a premier INTU run shopping arcade.
Sadly a demise that has been years in the making and the surge in online shopping. As has been mentioned in other posts there won't be a High Street anymore it'll be hairdressers and charity shops. Very sad times.

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And betting shops and estate agents.

nicko31 · Dec 1, 2020

Time for a modest online sales tax to allow high street business rates to be scrapped. Out of the ashes, some multiples will be gone but there's no reason why small shops can thrive with the right conditions...

SK1NT · Dec 1, 2020

Swansman said:
With the very rapid development of AI and robots 50% of the population is going to be unemployed in the not too distant future. When deindustrialisation happened, the old generation said "oh, there will always be work" and yet all over the western world, unemployment has always been higher than in ie the 1960s. Now when AIs and robotics are taking over, the older generation says "oh there will always be jobs" but there is absolutely nothing that indicates it. People who say that they are not worried about the impact of new technologies on unemployment never have any other argument than "oh... we've these new jobs are just not invented yet!".

I do fear for the younger generation. House prices are ridiculous, Jobs are declining, Salaries barely increasing, pensions reduced, the mass debt of covid crippling them and the one job for life model a distant memory. The only way around this mess is to give a universal income, but i am sure that this will come with it's own problems. Really sad times

It is a shame that younger generations won't see the high street and the happiness it brought me as a child but i guess times change and they won't know any different. Maybe they will just prefer to do everything from their ipads. Maybe i am just sounding like an old man (i am only 40 though)

Swansman · Dec 1, 2020

SK1NT said:
I do fear for the younger generation. House prices are ridiculous, Jobs are declining, Salaries barely increasing, pensions reduced, the mass debt of covid crippling them and the one job for life model a distant memory. The only way around this mess is to give a universal income, but i am sure that this will come with it's own problems. Really sad times

It is a shame that younger generations won't see the high street and the happiness it brought me as a child but i guess times change and they won't know any different. Maybe they will just prefer to do everything from their ipads. Maybe i am just sounding like an old man (i am only 40 though)

From my experience a 40 year old is generally more likely to understand these issues than the older generation. They've seen a lot issues and had huge transformations of their society and the problems got solved and perhaps based on that believe that any future issue also will be solved in a relatively harmless manner. But this is a new set of problems and most of them have no obvious solutions in sight. The train is rapidly moving towards the broken bridge without any intention of hitting the brakes and the repairmen still havent got the call.

A lot of the issues with moving from the industrial society to the service society were solved with band-aid solutions that were always sooner or later going to cause multiple significant problems that are very hard to solve. Turning the world into a fiat economy in 1971 was an economical time bomb. Massively reducing self-dependence and increasing export could be described as the enviromental time bomb. Allowing and encouraging modern technologies to replace human workforce is also a time bomb.

Few are asking for the solutions and the ones who do it does not get any good answers. "How am I going to get a house with all the fiat economy inflation hiding in house prices?" No one got the answer. "What am I going to work with when AI and robotics can do everything I can do but cheaper and more efficiently?" The answer: "Well, there will be new jobs..." What planet am I going to live on when you and your whole generation gladly rode the bandwagon to destroy it? "Well... it will solve itself. And I've heard that the Elon Musk guy is taking us to Mars."

Well, thanks. Very insuring, grandpa.

clapham_gull · Dec 1, 2020

Easy 10 said:
A very sad end to a High Street institution.

In other news, I am still utterly baffled how the glorified overpriced newsagents that is WH Smith is still going.

Does well in other areas of the business bizarrely and especially at railway stations and airports.

Knowingly puts no investment into the other high Street shops.

Yes, bizarre.

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Easy 10 · Dec 1, 2020

clapham_gull said:
Does well in other areas of the business bizarrely and especially at railway stations and airports.

Knowingly puts no investment into the other high Street shops.

Yes, bizarre.

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About the only time I use them is when I'm browsing for a paperback at the airport before a flight (which would be about once or twice a year max) or for a paper for the occasional train journey, so yeah, I can see their presence in these places as opposed to the High Street would easily account for the bulk of their sales.

Their airport and railway station sales will have been devastated this year though. Even though I use WH Smith once in a blue moon, of course I hope they survive. It'd be another sad one to go. The stuff in there ALWAYS strikes me as overpriced though, hence they're never my go-to for a book or board game if I'm mincing around the town centre.

Thunder Bolt · Dec 1, 2020

BBassic said:
Feels a bit like when Woolworths went. Debenhams has always been on the high street.

Horrible news for the staff losing their jobs at this time of year.

2020 should just give it a rest already.

Eastbourne Debenhams closed over a year ago.

beorhthelm · Dec 1, 2020

Easy 10 said:
About the only time I use them is when I'm browsing for a paperback at the airport before a flight (which would be about once or twice a year max) or for a paper for the occasional train journey, so yeah, I can see their presence in these places as opposed to the High Street would easily account for the bulk of their sales.

Their airport and railway station sales will have been devastated this year though. Even though I use WH Smith once in a blue moon, of course I hope they survive. It'd be another sad one to go. The stuff in there ALWAYS strikes me as overpriced though, hence they're never my go-to for a book or board game if I'm mincing around the town centre.

we are presented with a choice. the convenience of immediate purchase in the railway or for that matter high street and pay more for it, or pay less online and get the goods later, delivered at home or work. consumers choose. the large towns with an array of display oriented shops will continue, for those that shop for leisure. smaller towns can hopefully change to more independent shops trading on service, away from the "identikit" row of branded shop so many also dislike. shopping is a means to an end (buying stuff, trivial to practical), not a end itself.

atfc village · Dec 1, 2020

Easy 10 said:
A very sad end to a High Street institution.

In other news, I am still utterly baffled how the glorified overpriced newsagents that is WH Smith is still going.

Alot of them now have a post office.

Publius Ovidius · Dec 1, 2020

Chicken Run said:
Are you whooshing me PO?? [emoji23]

mcLaren is the name of the site developer, And it’s a storage unit facility going on there [emoji106]

Aaaaah. I am sorry I only saw the name as I drove past!

PILTDOWN MAN · Dec 1, 2020

As these big stores disappear the majority have themselves to blame. There was a mad rush to open shopping malls, leaving many a town centre bereft of the major stores, and those left allowed to stagnate. The convenience of out of town supermarkets, shopping malls and retail parks has left most town centres to coffee shops, charity shops and Weatherspoons. As time went on more and more people have started to shop online and now I hardly know anyone who goes into town to shop but more often to wonder about and perhaps drop in for a beer or two. The days of serious town centre shopping have have been confined to history.

Another huge change is the way we use money, the cashless society, the closure of banks in towns has stopped people from the need to visit centres. An example of that, though never big, is Battle, since the banks left the place is dead. The local shops have suffered tremendously, many closing, as the footfall has disappeared.

This will be compounded with businesses realising they really don't need these huge office blocks in city/town centres thus removing even more potential customers.

Just as a side note since the demise of Battle, what have the local council done? Double the carpark charges and installed on street parking charges, that's going to encourage people. NOT, you couldn't make it up.

blue-shifted · Dec 1, 2020

nicko31 said:
Time for a modest online sales tax to allow high street business rates to be scrapped. Out of the ashes, some multiples will be gone but there's no reason why small shops can thrive with the right conditions...

A large one would be preferable.

In any sane world, a company which resides offshore, so barely pays any tax, shouldn't be allowed to undercut businesses that do.

Super Steve Earle · Dec 1, 2020

I'll miss Debenhams badly. Bought Christmas presents and clothes there for years. Ben Sherman shirts and T-Shirts, Levi jeans, jackets and tops, Mantaray shirts for hols, coats for winter. Shed loads of stuff much cheaper than other retailers plus the invaluable ability to try on stuff. Mrs Earle has bought loads of handbags and shoes there, perfumes and the like. Online is great, but you can't try stuff on. Arcadia going under is probably the final straw with their concessions in-store. That's my loss, but enormous sympathy for the staff who have had this Sword of Damocles hanging over their heads for months if not years. Shame on all the stakeholders for not renegotiating rents, keeping parking costs reasonable, in Brighton, allowing cars good access, cutting Business Rates to realistic levels, negotiating tax breaks and everything else to keep the High Street alive in the face of relentless uneven competition from online retailers.
N.B. I've just realised that's almost my last reason to visit Churchill Square gone. Not sure if Clarkes, HMV, WH Smith, maybe a wander down to Fatface and a couple of others for Mrs Earle will be enough of a draw.

pasty · Dec 1, 2020

Super Steve Earle said:
I'll miss Debenhams badly. Bought Christmas presents and clothes there for years. Ben Sherman shirts and T-Shirts, Levi jeans, jackets and tops, Mantaray shirts for hols, coats for winter. Shed loads of stuff much cheaper than other retailers plus the invaluable ability to try on stuff. Mrs Earle has bought loads of handbags and shoes there, perfumes and the like. Online is great, but you can't try stuff on. Arcadia going under is probably the final straw with their concessions in-store. That's my loss, but enormous sympathy for the staff who have had this Sword of Damocles hanging over their heads for months if not years. Shame on all the stakeholders for not renegotiating rents, cutting Business Rates to realistic levels, negotiating tax breaks and everything else to keep the High Street alive in the face of relentless uneven competition from online retailers.

Must admit I agree with you. Debenhams was pretty much mine and Mrs P's go-to shop for most of the stuff you mentioned. We'll both miss it when it's gone.

zefarelly · Dec 1, 2020

Churchill square is an interesting reference point.

Maybe they'll rip the massive shit box down. They could build an open air retail area with small to medium outlets owned and run by local Businesses. That's where my first Ben Shermans and levis came from.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Dec 1, 2020

Having watched the football on BT tonight, this thread made me think of another defunct British enterprise, BHS, and the sad plight of their formerly loyal customers. Watching tonights pundits, I really felt for Michael Owen. He looked like he's on one of the last of his old dad's jackets. How will he cope, going forward?

Harry Wilson's tackle · Dec 1, 2020

zefarelly said:
Churchill square is an interesting reference point.

Maybe they'll rip the massive shit box down. They could build an open air retail area with small to medium outlets owned and run by local Businesses. That's where my first Ben Shermans and levis came from.

View attachment 130984

It seemed so exciting at the time. That photo now reminds me of war-torn Beirut. :down:

Thunder Bolt · Dec 1, 2020

PILTDOWN MAN said:
As these big stores disappear the majority have themselves to blame. There was a mad rush to open shopping malls, leaving many a town centre bereft of the major stores, and those left allowed to stagnate. The convenience of out of town supermarkets, shopping malls and retail parks has left most town centres to coffee shops, charity shops and Weatherspoons. As time went on more and more people have started to shop online and now I hardly know anyone who goes into town to shop but more often to wonder about and perhaps drop in for a beer or two. The days of serious town centre shopping have have been confined to history.

Another huge change is the way we use money, the cashless society, the closure of banks in towns has stopped people from the need to visit centres. An example of that, though never big, is Battle, since the banks left the place is dead. The local shops have suffered tremendously, many closing, as the footfall has disappeared.

This will be compounded with businesses realising they really don't need these huge office blocks in city/town centres thus removing even more potential customers.

Just as a side note since the demise of Battle, what have the local council done? Double the carpark charges and installed on street parking charges, that's going to encourage people. NOT, you couldn't make it up.

16 years ago there were three banks in Newhaven, and one by one they closed. All the shops have gone except Poundstretcher and Boots. We have a couple of coffee shops, and charity shops.
This summer both hairdressers closed. There is a Londis general store and a newsagents.
Newhaven Town council, with LDC have offered units rent free, with one hours free parking in two car parks. A veterinary surgery has opened, but that’s it.

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