[Football] Clear and obvious error

Neville's Breakfast · Nov 28, 2020

Can we all help Peter Walton out by defining ‘clear and obvious error ?’
For me it is unmeasurable. A decision is subjectively either right or wrong.

CaptainDaveUK · Nov 28, 2020

Goals are being regularly disallowed for players being an inch offside, which is less obvious then a rash attempt at a clearance. Obviously missed by the referee and, unfortunately for Liverpool, obviously a penalty. Clearly a penalty and obviously missed by the referee.

blue-shifted · Nov 28, 2020

Any broadcaster employing Walton have made a clear and obvious error

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pasty · Nov 28, 2020

I was really glad Walton was on commentary today. During the VAR review for the penalty, the minute he said it wasn't a penalty, I knew it was going to be given. :thumbsup:

timbha · Nov 28, 2020

CaptainDaveUK said:
Clearly a penalty and obviously missed by the referee.

well said

drew · Nov 28, 2020

blue-shifted said:
Any broadcaster employing Walton have made a clear and obvious error

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Exactly, the biggest game he ever refereed was the community shield!

Gazwag · Nov 28, 2020

It winds me up on BT games where every decision is referred to him.

"That kick off, can I bring you in Peter, in your opinion did he kick that ball hard enough"

Baldseagull · Nov 28, 2020

Neville's Breakfast said:
Can we all help Peter Walton out by defining ‘clear and obvious error ?’
For me it is unmeasurable. A decision is subjectively either right or wrong.

A clear and obvious error is to assume that this is all VAR is for, it is also used in the case of a "serious missed incident" it may be that the ref did not see the kick on Welbeck, and therefore it was a missed incident, now we just need to define serious.

Uh_huh_him · Nov 28, 2020

Neville's Breakfast said:
Can we all help Peter Walton out by defining ‘clear and obvious error ?’
For me it is unmeasurable. A decision is subjectively either right or wrong.[/QU

Bloke needs to be put down.
In a humane way naturally.

No need for his irrelevant waffling on broadcast televison

nickbrighton · Nov 28, 2020

Jake Humphries still bears a grudge- had the penalty been the other way round he would barley have mentioned it. All rthe times Ive seen him when Brighton are playing he is very much in the anti brighton camp.

Neville's Breakfast · Nov 28, 2020

Baldseagull said:
A clear and obvious error is to assume that this is all VAR is for, it is also used in the case of a "serious missed incident" it may be that the ref did not see the kick on Welbeck, and therefore it was a missed incident, now we just need to define serious.

Agreed. What’s a bit weird is that Walton seems to think it means ‘clear and obvious to Peter Walton that it is an error.’ If someone in the VAR team think it is a clear and obvious error that is actually all that is necessary for a referral to the referee. I don’t think I would have given the penalty even with the benefit of slow motion but I am perplexed by the mental contortions Walton is going through over a very simple concept.

Medwayseagull · Nov 28, 2020

If the referee didn't think he made a mistake he is not obliged to change his mind after looking at the monitor. Attwell believed he had missed the contact so it was a clear and obvious error - Walton clearly doesn't understand the concept.

Lower West Stander · Nov 28, 2020

He said the same last week on the Villa penalty decision. Disagreed with that too.

So perhaps Walton needs to look at the way he’s interpreting this and realise he’s getting it wrong?

That’s twice in two weeks now

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GT49er · Nov 28, 2020

drew said:
Exactly, the biggest game he ever refereed was the community shield!

Thank goodness he didn't disallow Charlie Webb's goal - borderline offside if ever there was! :wink:

drew · Nov 28, 2020

What they need to do is remove the reference to 'clear and obvious'. There is no finite definition of what exactly that means. Remove it and you'll remove 90% of the debate over these decisions!!!

jessiejames · Nov 28, 2020

drew said:
What they need to do is remove the reference to 'clear and obvious'. There is no finite definition of what exactly that means. Remove it and you'll remove 90% of the debate over these decisions!!!

This. The problem is VAR is correct all the time. The ref might not have seen the player with his big toe offside when he scored, is that clear?, No but obviously you can not give the goal. Get rid of the wording clear and obvious, then decide to either keep VAR and check every goal, handball or penalty decision, or bin VAR, let the referee run the game and make the decision and accept human mistakes.

What ever happens no football fan, player or pundit will be happy.

beorhthelm · Nov 28, 2020

drew said:
What they need to do is remove the reference to 'clear and obvious'. There is no finite definition of what exactly that means. Remove it and you'll remove 90% of the debate over these decisions!!!

its that good old common sense thing. of course its obvious what clear and obvious means, those incidents that occur but the ref misses due to position, speed of game, off ball etc. trouble is the video make every damn transgression obvious with 5x slow mo and 18 cameras. apply the rule, its clear and obvious to the 4th official, so he'll clearly will refer it. i say there should be a tight time limit, if 4th cant decide a ref missed something in a few seconds, it wasn't obvious and so play on. the irony is the condition is intended to stop every tiny incident being reviewed and refered to the ref. its not working.

seeing the Welbeck penalty, i couldnt even say its even a foul, two players go for ball, neither get it and one clips the other. despite benefiting from it, i dont like it, wasnt a deserved penalty.

jessiejames · Nov 29, 2020

beorhthelm said:
its that good old common sense thing. of course its obvious what clear and obvious means, those incidents that occur but the ref misses due to position, speed of game, off ball etc. trouble is the video make every damn transgression obvious with 5x slow mo and 18 cameras. apply the rule, its clear and obvious to the 4th official, so he'll clearly will refer it. i say there should be a tight time limit, if 4th cant decide a ref missed something in a few seconds, it wasn't obvious and so play on. the irony is the condition is intended to stop every tiny incident being reviewed and refered to the ref. its not working.

seeing the Welbeck penalty, i couldnt even say its even a foul, two players go for ball, neither get it and one clips the other. despite benefiting from it, i dont like it, wasnt a deserved penalty.

Robinson kicks Welbeck, this stops him getting to ball, that is a foul. It doesn't matter if it's a deserved penalty, in the laws of the game this is a foul. If this happens in the penalty area it's a penalty.

Nitram · Nov 29, 2020

The spirit of a clear and obvious error mooted with the introduction of VAR vanished the day they started measuring the millimetres for someone being offside. The implementation of VAR shows how the best intentions can be ruined by jobsworts justifying their own existence.
The only clear and obvious error is this system being continued.

DavidinSouthampton · Nov 29, 2020

nickbrighton said:
Jake Humphries still bears a grudge- had the penalty been the other way round he would barley have mentioned it. All rthe times Ive seen him when Brighton are playing he is very much in the anti brighton camp.

....... just as many of us are in the anti Jake Humphries camp. I’ve never liked him anyway, even before the wonderful Norwich/dreadful Brighton thing.

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