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[News] Bunglefool Sunak and the MASSIVE fraud?



Grombleton

Grombleton

Surrounded by <div>s
Dec 31, 2011
7,356
Chicken Run said:
Regretfully I’d use a similar term to describe my accountant who sent an all client email saying “during these times we are here to help” bullshit so I reached out to get some advice over the phone to which two months later I get billed £50 plus vat for the 5 minute phone call which ultimately didn’t resolve or clearly answer my question.
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I don't have a horse in this race as i left being self-employed last November, but that is absolutely shambolic stuff from your accountant there. Even if we weren't in this period of uncertainty I'd kick off if the company I worked for did that kind of thing.
 




Lyndhurst 14

Lyndhurst 14

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2008
5,130
This kind of thing was going on with Trump in the States, rewarding all his Republican buddies, and if you could claim some kind of religious affiliation they'd probably double it and it would be tax free !
 


Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,031
The arse end of Hangleton
Chicken Run said:
Regretfully I’d use a similar term to describe my accountant who sent an all client email saying “during these times we are here to help” bullshit so I reached out to get some advice over the phone to which two months later I get billed £50 plus vat for the 5 minute phone call which ultimately didn’t resolve or clearly answer my question.
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I place accountants in the same group as lawyers and estate agents :whistle:

Quite a while ago I wanted to set up a limited company and was recommended that Carpenter Box in Worthing would be useful. "That'll be £250 - obviously plus VAT - sir". Yeah, OK - eff off. I've since set up a number of limited companies all for the Companies House charge !
 




LlcoolJ

LlcoolJ

Mama said knock you out.
Oct 14, 2009
12,982
Sheffield
Westdene Seagull said:
I place accountants in the same group as lawyers and estate agents :whistle:

Quite a while ago I wanted to set up a limited company and was recommended that Carpenter Box in Worthing would be useful. "That'll be £250 - obviously plus VAT - sir". Yeah, OK - eff off. I've since set up a number of limited companies all for the Companies House charge !
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I always advise clients to do it themselves via Companies House. If they have any problems they can call / email me for advice and I don't charge them for it.
 




W

Worthing exile

New member
May 12, 2009
1,219
I know someone who had a business that had gone belly up before COVID but applied to his bank for a BBL and got £30k. If they had checked the business account properly they would have seen it wasn't trading.

Because I suspect it was a fraud, I notified the bank. What did they do? Nothing.
 


LlcoolJ

LlcoolJ

Mama said knock you out.
Oct 14, 2009
12,982
Sheffield
Chicken Run said:
I have and my wife being a contractor has similarly ditched them, in their final invoice they are billing for work that they haven’t even completed.

We won’t pay until my wife’s corporation tax has been submitted.
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Get your new accountant to go through the bill forensically.

I've seen this before and got a £1700 bill for basically nothing reduced to £200.

Some proper scumbags out there in every "profession"!
 


LlcoolJ

LlcoolJ

Mama said knock you out.
Oct 14, 2009
12,982
Sheffield
Worthing exile said:
I know someone who had a business that had gone belly up before COVID but applied to his bank for a BBL and got £30k. If they had checked the business account properly they would have seen it wasn't trading.

Because I suspect it was a fraud, I notified the bank. What did they do? Nothing.
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The bank wont care because it's underwritten by the government........er, us.
 








LlcoolJ

LlcoolJ

Mama said knock you out.
Oct 14, 2009
12,982
Sheffield
Worthing exile said:
And there is nowhere else to report it.
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No idea mate. I've not seen any cases of fraud. As I said, my mate's was a genuine claim in his circumstances and his loan will be repaid.

It just highlighted to me how open to out and out RINSING the scheme is.
 




beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,315
Worthing exile said:
I know someone who had a business that had gone belly up before COVID but applied to his bank for a BBL and got £30k. If they had checked the business account properly they would have seen it wasn't trading.

Because I suspect it was a fraud, I notified the bank. What did they do? Nothing.
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so they'll be on the hook to pay it back. if they dont, do we really think the banks wont follow up?
 


W

Worthing exile

New member
May 12, 2009
1,219
beorhthelm said:
so they'll be on the hook to pay it back. if they dont, do we really think the banks wont follow up?
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No doubt they will try but there is no business. So unless there is some sort of personal guarantee, why would he (rather than the business) have to pay it back?
 


LlcoolJ

LlcoolJ

Mama said knock you out.
Oct 14, 2009
12,982
Sheffield
beorhthelm said:
so they'll be on the hook to pay it back. if they dont, do we really think the banks wont follow up?
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It's complicated. If the entity that has taken out the loan (the company) has been dissolved then it's a tricky process to go after the directors / shareholders.

However, I would have thought that the loans would have been given with the proviso that should someone want to down the company, the lender would (like any creditor) be able to halt the dissolution. It takes 3 months to strike a company off and creditors have to be informed (grey area but...).

Also, if the director / shareholder had taken the money out personally then unless they had sufficient funds in their director's loan account they would be personally liable to refund an inslovent company.

But this is all assuming people are doing things legitimately.

As I said in the OP. The opportunities for huge scale fraud are enormous. The one man band who tries to get away with £20k will probably be screwed. That wasn't what I was talking about and why I advised all clients who mentioned anything like it to forget about it straight away.

It's organised criminals who will have made a fortune.
 




M

marlowe

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2015
3,938
I was aware of this fiasco in the first lockdown. I know of two limited companies who were handed grants they didn't need or at least not for the amounts they were given. One of those companys was brighton based with no (official) employees. He was closed for the two and half months of lockdown and was just handed £25,000. I don't think he even applied for the grant and just found it transferred into the company bank account. He couldn't believe his luck and just used some of it to fly out for a holiday in the South of France.

Those first grants and the amounts awarded were I believe assessed based on the amount of business rates the business paid. There were two payment levels, one for £15,000 and one for £25,000. So if the business paid above a certain amount in business rates they got the £25,000 and below the upper threshold got the £15,000 award.

What should also be remembered is that many of these businesses have also been given a business rates holiday for a year so that can equate to another £15,000 saved which brought the actual financial benefit for the larger company up to £40,000 for what turned out to be a two and a half month lockdown.

I also found out that the grants were administrated by the local councils, and they all administrated them in different ways. Brighton and Hove Council were just handing them out automatically with no application needed hence South of France holiday boy, whereas Lewes Council put more of a control over them and you had to apply.

Because Brighton Council already had the company's bank details from direct debit payments for business rates I assume, they just did the transfers.

It's scandalous. Some businesses in some sectors got nothing or next to nothing and are either really struggling or went bust whereas some of those in other sectors have done very well out Covid and its been a massive pay day for them, far in excess of the loss of lockdown income. The other business I'm aware of has two locations so effectively made £80,000 in benefits, two £25,000 grants and two business rate holidays equating to around £15,000 each.

The whole grants thing was rushed through without proper checks being put in place. Instead of dishing out £25,000 in one lump sum as they did, the payments should have been staggered like all benefits are.
 
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Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
50,187
Faversham
Beach Hut said:
The system was set up in around two weeks for loans, furlough etc so hardly road tested as such therefore several individuals / companies decided to take advantage but will hopefully get found out sooner rather than later.

Usual story, massive assistance offered however some deem it their divine right to take advantage of it.

I wonder why the OP points the finger just at immigrants ?
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He was being facetious!
 








zefarelly

zefarelly

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
21,837
Sussex, by the sea
I did initially wonder who the thread weas referring to , but quickly realised it was a pseudonym for R.Itchy Ballsack
 


DavidinSouthampton

DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 3, 2012
16,597
Beach Hut said:
The system was set up in around two weeks for loans, furlough etc so hardly road tested as such therefore several individuals / companies decided to take advantage but will hopefully get found out sooner rather than later.

Usual story, massive assistance offered however some deem it their divine right to take advantage of it.

I wonder why the OP points the finger just at immigrants ?
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I think the OP was being ironic with the immigrants comment........ I don’t think he’s like that.

I have a family member who is middle management in HMRC. The amount of fraud is considerable and I trust plenty of people will get clobbered.
 


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