Full national lockdown (not education) 4/11 - 1/12 possible

CheeseRolls · Oct 31, 2020

Mustafa said:
In hospitals it is not uncommon to have to choose to save one life, and as a result allow another to die. For example if they only have the resources to save one, they would have to make that terrible decision. The well established ethics based on both compassion and common sense, is to prioritise a young and healthy person before an old or seriously ill one.

A friend of mine (early 30's) had his chemotherapy postponed in March until a couple of weeks from now. If it gets delayed again, I would seriously question the ethics of these restrictions.

This is a serious misreading of the situation. Chemotherapy has a major impact on the immunity system. You have to be able to treat and transport patients to and from home in an infection free bubble. It doesn't matter if the carrier is old and frail or young and healthy, the impact on the cancer patient is the same.

Resources are scarce, but you have to wonder why there are not dedicated cancer treatment centres being set up away from the main hospitals.

Hampster Gull · Oct 31, 2020

dazzer6666 said:
It’s not about how anyone ‘chose’ to be obese, or whether they can go on a diet though - it’s more that without shielding (in the vast numbers necessary given the incidence of obesity) they’ll be far more likely to get very ill, and the NHS won’t be able to cope.

Agree that the facts show that if you are obese or overweight you’d are more likely to get seriously ill and that there is a risk the nhs won’t be able to cope (although mitigated in part now the nightingale hospitals are now ready, one of the few successes of this shambolic govt). But there is a wider point, we are want 8 months into this, I’d guess say 6 moths we’ve all known the link to weight and the illness. Do you think it’s incumbent on individuals in those categories to do something about that, not only for themselves and their loved ones but also to take the pressure off the nhs and the wider community? Or do you think it’s fine to do nothing? I’ve lost nearly 10% of my weight since this started, now in the right band, it required discipline but wasn’t hard.

darkwolf666 · Oct 31, 2020

jessiejames said:
should I take that as a compliment you calling me a charmer. On the radio last week was a doctor at a hospital saying a full lockdown is needed as they only had one intensive care bed available, get a doctor from a hospital 4 miles away complained that they had an entire ward available, and even before and during last lockdown had only seen ward half full.
SAGE report one set of figures other scientists report another. Government tells us Shield the elderly, but use them for your child care if you can go to work. Work from home, but if you can't go to work, only Essential services should open, well BoJo please advise us what is an essential service. Do not make unnecessary trips, unless your in the Cabinet then y o u can. Face masks do not reduce the chances of getting Covid, you must wear a face mask. 2 meter rule applies, but if not possible 1 meter will do. Track and trace will reduce transmission as we can alert people if they have been in contact with infected peop!e, scan the app when you go in, where do you scan to leave? Pointless.
Test more = chances are more cases detected, how reliable are the test?

If this was from Orange bungle**** from USA we would be ripping him to shreads, but it's not this is our Government, one that I voted for.

And you voted for this shower of shit.

If there was ever a time for a united non political party government, it's now!

hans kraay fan club · Oct 31, 2020

Wardy's twin said:
Your initial response came over as 'i'll do what i want'. You have just painted a situation which no one was asking you to change as you have a family group of 4 or am i missing something.

In my post i cited the case of an individual who believes its ok to flout the rules so he can have a bet and a drink in a pub, neither activity is essential and both can be easily substituted by online betting and getting alcohol from a supermarket.

Not sure how hard COVID has hit you but my wife was in ICU with it so people who think it is a joke or something to make light off need a reality check.

Exactly. Apologies to [MENTION=27239]atomised[/MENTION] for the wording, and for his kids’ situation, but you’ve explained what prompted my reply - that is exactly how the original post came across.

‘I’m sick of being told I can’t have my normal Christmas” is a very odd thing to write, when it turns out your normal family Christmas is not going to be impacted by any suggested lockdown, anyway’ :shrug:

jessiejames · Oct 31, 2020

darkwolf666 said:
And you voted for this shower of shit.

If there was ever a time for a united non political party government, it's now!

I you think things would be different under Corbyn? I doesn't matter, this is a virus that Unfortunately most Governments around the world don't understand, it's just made up as they go along.

worthingseagull123 · Oct 31, 2020

jessiejames said:
I you think things would be different under Corbyn? I doesn't matter, this is a virus that Unfortunately most Governments around the world don't understand, it's just made up as they go along.

It would be vastly worse with Corbyn, Diane Abbott and John McDonnell running things.

darkwolf666 · Oct 31, 2020

jessiejames said:
I you think things would be different under Corbyn? I doesn't matter, this is a virus that Unfortunately most Governments around the world don't understand, it's just made up as they go along.

I would like to think that the man in charge would at least be visible, not Where's ****ing Wally!

We should have an all party United government, to stop the self serving feather nesting and giving contracts to mates..

Weststander · Oct 31, 2020

Napper said:
"far more likely to get ill"

sensationalism , for the majority there is barely any chance of complications and if you are obese or vulnerable then there is still a very low chance of getting complications.

The way you spin it is pure bbc

The work of Professor Kelvin Mackenzie?

atomised · Oct 31, 2020

hans kraay fan club said:
Exactly. Apologies to [MENTION=27239]atomised[/MENTION] for the wording, and for his kids’ situation, but you’ve explained what prompted my reply - that is exactly how the original post came across.

‘I’m sick of being told I can’t have my normal Christmas” is a very odd thing to write, when it turns out your normal family Christmas is not going to be impacted by any suggested lockdown, anyway’

Fair enough. People always seem to assume a.reference to a normal Christmas relates to huge family get togethers covering many miles. I have never had that and as I also later stated part of my issue in my original post was about the media and teachers at school etc leaving my kids in tears everytime they say Christmas is cancelled. None of these people say that their comments relate to numbers of people. It's just a Christmas is cancelled and that's that.
My response was to a post pretty much going with that very mantra of nobody having a normal Christmas.. it's bollocks that so many think Christmas can only be one thing

dazzer6666 · Oct 31, 2020

Hampster Gull said:
Agree that the facts show that if you are obese or overweight you’d are more likely to get seriously ill and that there is a risk the nhs won’t be able to cope (although mitigated in part now the nightingale hospitals are now ready, one of the few successes of this shambolic govt). But there is a wider point, we are want 8 months into this, I’d guess say 6 moths we’ve all known the link to weight and the illness. Do you think it’s incumbent on individuals in those categories to do something about that, not only for themselves and their loved ones but also to take the pressure off the nhs and the wider community? Or do you think it’s fine to do nothing? I’ve lost nearly 10% of my weight since this started, now in the right band, it required discipline but wasn’t hard.

I completely agree (well done on the loss too) but problem is most haven't done that (I know loads that have gained weight).....and they are the people that will end up crippling the NHS when they catch it. Can't refuse someone treatment because they can't keep off the Maccy Ds......

drew · Oct 31, 2020

Hampster Gull said:
Not to your specific Q, but the allocation of scarce resource to our health service Vs other activity is by itself a life and death decision which the government make on our behalf

But that wasn't what was implied in the post I was specifically responding to.

atomised · Oct 31, 2020

hans kraay fan club said:
Exactly. Apologies to [MENTION=27239]atomised[/MENTION] for the wording, and for his kids’ situation, but you’ve explained what prompted my reply - that is exactly how the original post came across.

‘I’m sick of being told I can’t have my normal Christmas” is a very odd thing to write, when it turns out your normal family Christmas is not going to be impacted by any suggested lockdown, anyway’

Many thanks for the apology though and sorry for your recent loss

driller · Oct 31, 2020

Hampster Gull · Oct 31, 2020

dazzer6666 said:
I completely agree (well done on the loss too) but problem is most haven't done that (I know loads that have gained weight).....and they are the people that will end up crippling the NHS when they catch it. Can't refuse someone treatment because they can't keep off the Maccy Ds......

Yes, we can’t and shouldn’t refuse. The sacrifices being made by everyone is so severe though it would be great if people did what they could (and thanks btw :thumbsup:

)
Read today in FT that vitamin d is really helpful
“It is clear that the existing medical literature on the crucial role of vitamin D in fighting respiratory infections and controlling overactivity of the immune system, is abundant and highly persuasive. There is new evidence that maintaining high vitamin D serumlevels is highly protective against COVID-19. Furthermore, studies have already established deficiency in a higher proportion of the UK population than in other European countries or the US. The UK population has remained largely vitamin D “deficient” and“insufficient” with average blood levels of only 19ng/ml, far lower than levels of 40-60ng/ml shown to support good health and resistance to infection.”

Of course other factors etc but I’m taking extra supplements now, no downside as far as I can see

Hampster Gull · Oct 31, 2020

drew said:
But that wasn't what was implied in the post I was specifically responding to.

Yes, that is true,I interpreted yours rightly or wrongly as an example of a wider point

Bakero · Oct 31, 2020

[tweet]1322562692771696640[/tweet]

Eeyore · Oct 31, 2020

Robert Peston appears to have given the full details of the lockdown already.

Why even have a government announcement when the media will leak it for us ?

Can't even be bothered to watch now.

Papa Lazarou · Oct 31, 2020

Brighton Lines said:
Robert Peston appears to have given the full details of the lockdown already.

Why even have a government announcement when the media will leak it for us ?

Can't even be bothered to watch now.

You can hardly call it 'leaked' when this government makes ALL of its policy announcements via press briefings, hardly anything gets announced in Parliament.

darkwolf666 · Oct 31, 2020

Papa Lazarou said:
You can hardly call it 'leaked' when this government makes ALL of its policy announcements via press briefings, hardly anything gets announced in Parliament.

Or run past Parliament first...

They must think we are stupid, it's not a National Lockdown, it's Tier 4...!

Green Cross Code Man · Oct 31, 2020

dazzer6666 said:
I completely agree (well done on the loss too) but problem is most haven't done that (I know loads that have gained weight).....and they are the people that will end up crippling the NHS when they catch it. Can't refuse someone treatment because they can't keep off the Maccy Ds......

Especially when the government were practically giving away McDonalds earlier in the year.

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