The Vaccine Thread

dsr-burnley · Jan 11, 2021

The Fits said:
Daily Mail headline today...Care Homes: We've Been Betrayed Over Jabs....only 1 in 10 vulnerable residents given vaccine.

Oh dear.

I think the Daily Mail has misunderstood the position. the Pfizer vaccine was never going to be taken out to care homes because of the difficulty of carrying it, and the care home residents were never going to be brought to vaccination centres because of the difficulty they typically have in getting about. Care homes were always going to wait for the Oxford vaccine, which they are only just starting with.

dsr-burnley · Jan 11, 2021

Kinky Gerbils said:
These are care home deaths, people that have been allowed little or no contact with the outside world

Seems the easiest place to control, no?

You can lockdown what ever you want, till you get better infection control in hospitals and Care homes it won’t really matter.

Care homes aren't the easiest place to control. The residents don't get out much, but the staff do, and there are a lot of staff.

Kinky Gerbil · Jan 11, 2021

dsr-burnley said:
Care homes aren't the easiest place to control. The residents don't get out much, but the staff do, and there are a lot of staff.

Testing/stopping multiple home visits/making sure they had PPE at the start

darkwolf666 · Jan 11, 2021

Kinky Gerbils said:
They have been betrayed since day 1 and we are still seeing majority of cases/deaths from CH

I think we have to be careful with using phrases like “the majority” in relation to care home deaths, as this isn’t the case.

In recent weeks care home deaths equate for approximately 25% of total COVID deaths, unfortunately for some people hearing or reading the “majority” happen in care homes they will then think “that’s all right, just the old uns, that were going to die soon anyway”. This coupled with the repeated “with underlying health conditions” mantra that again in some people’s minds makes it ok for people to be just treated as numbers, rather than human beings.

darkwolf666 · Jan 11, 2021

dsr-burnley said:
I think the Daily Mail has misunderstood the position. the Pfizer vaccine was never going to be taken out to care homes because of the difficulty of carrying it, and the care home residents were never going to be brought to vaccination centres because of the difficulty they typically have in getting about. Care homes were always going to wait for the Oxford vaccine, which they are only just starting with.

So what you’re saying is that a National daily newspaper, known for sensationalism, in particular with relation to COVID, is using sensationalism in their headlines about COVID.

Should keep the Facebook hordes fed for a while...

Rugrat · Jan 11, 2021

dsr-burnley said:
I think the Daily Mail has misunderstood the position. the Pfizer vaccine was never going to be taken out to care homes because of the difficulty of carrying it, and the care home residents were never going to be brought to vaccination centres because of the difficulty they typically have in getting about. Care homes were always going to wait for the Oxford vaccine, which they are only just starting with.

They seemed to manage it in Scotland OK

beorhthelm · Jan 11, 2021

darkwolf666 said:
...This coupled with the repeated “with underlying health conditions” mantra that again in some people’s minds makes it ok for people to be just treated as numbers, rather than human beings.

numbers and statistics is how we make sense of data, separating anecdotal evidence and hard facts, and allows us to see the scale of problems objectively. for instance, what would you say to the information total deaths in care homes dropped in 2020? (i dont have whole year dataset, but thats what it looks like. reason for this might be fewer people going into care homes)

beorhthelm · Jan 11, 2021

Rugrat said:
They seemed to manage it in Scotland OK

as they have in some in England. they have not, and not planned to, distribute Pfizer vaccine to every care home in either nation.

Rugrat · Jan 11, 2021

beorhthelm said:
as they have in some in England. they have not, and not planned to, distribute Pfizer vaccine to every care home in either nation.

I was responding to the statement that the Pfizer vaccine was never going to be taken to care homes. It was, and in 'large' numbers. It made sense to have held larger stocks at hospitals for front line staff and patients in the knowledge that Oxford was coming up.

pb21 · Jan 11, 2021

beorhthelm said:
...for instance, what would you say to the information total deaths in care homes dropped in 2020? (i dont have whole year dataset, but thats what it looks like. reason for this might be fewer people going into care homes)

I would ask for the number per x number of care home residents, as you allude to.

If 'only' 1,000 care home residents died in 2020 that might look not too bad, unless only 1,000 people lived in a care home on 2020.

crodonilson · Jan 11, 2021

dazzer6666 said:
Start carefully reducing restrictions as soon as a) the risk of collapse of the health service has passed and b) all the elderly, vulnerable and keyworkers (inc teachers) have been vaccinated.

With b) being mid Feb, a) is probably mid/end March to allow for the lag and recoveries to get the numbers in hospital down, so mid/end March we’ll potentially start to see restrictions start to be eased.

I think the pressure on the health service will go on for a while longer, we can't just wait until numbers in hospital are down we need to wait until we've releived nearly all of the pressure from covid on the NHS as for them when this is over they will have a massive backlog of other issues to deal with. I agree though at this point when the pressure on the NHS has gone, and the time of year will naturally help with this also, we should go back to a toughened up tier system.

e77 · Jan 11, 2021

I suspect later in the year there will be a transitional period where infections are still quite high due to most of the working age population not being vaccinated bu hopefully hospitalisations and deaths will be low.

darkwolf666 · Jan 11, 2021

beorhthelm said:
numbers and statistics is how we make sense of data, separating anecdotal evidence and hard facts, and allows us to see the scale of problems objectively. for instance, what would you say to the information total deaths in care homes dropped in 2020? (i dont have whole year dataset, but thats what it looks like. reason for this might be fewer people going into care homes)

Let's just put it this way. My Dad is 90, if there was the remotest chance of him going into a care home in the last 9 months, we as a family would have moved heaven and earth to make sure it didn't happen.

I guess we wouldn't have been alone!

PS - I understand analysing data, I did that at the very top level for 10 years with The Met. I also understand how easy it is to lose sight of the fact that each number on a spreadsheet is a victim!

Rugrat · Jan 12, 2021

I thought they were publishing daily vaccinated numbers from yesterday. Anyone know where that might be found? Only numbers I can find are aggregate to date

dazzer6666 · Jan 12, 2021

Rugrat said:
I thought they were publishing daily vaccinated numbers from yesterday. Anyone know where that might be found? Only numbers I can find are aggregate to date

Think it was publishing numbers daily, rather than publishing daily numbers........however, if you subtract yesterday’s total from todays, you’ll have the number [emoji106][emoji6]

Rugrat · Jan 12, 2021

dazzer6666 said:
Think it was publishing numbers daily, rather than publishing daily numbers........however, if you subtract yesterday’s total from todays, you’ll have the number [emoji106][emoji6]

Okey dokey ... cheers

CHAPPERS · Jan 12, 2021

In the US

https://www.axios.com/trump-coronav...ter-ca22e892-71d4-4e04-9219-b41fec799524.html

Getting all the available doses out the door now. Both of the authorized vaccines require two shots; the government will no longer hold back doses for the second shot, but will instead try to get today’s doses into people’s arms now, trusting that supplies will increase rapidly enough to provide second shots.

RossyG · Jan 12, 2021

Anyone know how people are contacted to arrange their Inoculations?

My mum’s 84 and is waiting for the summons from Westcourt Surgery in Rustington, only her phone line keeps going dead for hours on end. I’ve rung the phone company and they said fault would need an indoor visit from an engineer, which obviously is not ideal.

I’m hoping they send out letters, but if it’s done by phone I might have to risk it.

Yoda · Jan 12, 2021

RossyG said:
Anyone know how people are contacted to arrange their Inoculations?

My mum’s 84 and is waiting for the summons from Westcourt Surgery in Rustington, only her phone line keeps going dead for hours on end. I’ve rung the phone company and they said fault would need an indoor visit from an engineer, which obviously is not ideal.

I’m hoping they send out letters, but if it’s done by phone I might have to risk it.

Contact wise, I do not know how it is being done. The last I heard, we were planning on having Westcourt being live by the end of this week with their Vaccination IT equipment coming from Central NHS England, so they may only just be starting to contact people now.

Tom Hark Preston Park · Jan 12, 2021

It can't be reasonable to ask the over-80s to make their way either by driving or by public transport from miles away to, say, Epsom racecourse shirley?

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The Vaccine Thread

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