[Football] Future VAR referees

The Large One · Oct 19, 2020

At the World Cup 2018 in Russia, there were no English referees officiating - on the pitch, nor in VAR. One can possibly infer from that that the best, current English referees aren't good enough for the top stage.

With that in mind, and given that VAR's main problem isn't necessarily its existence - more its application, should retired (ex-FIFA) referees take the VAR role in the Premier League, instead of the current, chummy, refereeing cabal at the moment?

Thoughts?

Bold Seagull · Oct 19, 2020

The Large One said:
At the World Cup 2018 in Russia, there were no English referees officiating - on the pitch, nor in VAR. One can possibly infer from that that the best, current English referees aren't good enough for the top stage.

With that in mind, and given that VAR's main problem isn't necessarily its existence - more its application, should retired (ex-FIFA) referees take the VAR role in the Premier League, instead of the current, chummy, refereeing cabal at the moment?

Thoughts?

My thoughts are why professional footballers upon retiring are not becoming referees?

I'm not talking the multi-millionaire Premier League players, I'm talking any kind of semi-professional tier 7 or 8 upward. Is there not enough reward? Is it just seen as too awful to contemplate? Are the career paths of say a 35 year old starting referring too difficult to make it to the top level?

Rugby, Cricket and other sports have a pathway for ex players to become top officials, just doesn't seem to happen in football. :shrug:

Washie · Oct 19, 2020

The fact i was given the answers in one of our "assessments" at the end of my course that training isn't great here. There seems to be more of an idea of 'get more refs out there' rather than 'get better refs'. I think this is one of the major problems we have in this country. I was also told to go north if i wanted to progress further as a referee as the assessors are a bit more lenient up there, and i have noticed how many northern refs there are in the prem. This was 10 years ago however, and could have just been my instructors.

Swansman · Oct 19, 2020

Bold Seagull said:
My thoughts are why professional footballers upon retiring are not becoming referees?

I'm not talking the multi-millionaire Premier League players, I'm talking any kind of semi-professional tier 7 or 8 upward. Is there not enough reward? Is it just seen as too awful to contemplate? Are the career paths of say a 35 year old starting referring too difficult to make it to the top level?

Rugby, Cricket and other sports have a pathway for ex players to become top officials, just doesn't seem to happen in football.

Tbf it must be a shit job. Unless you turn PL level the pay is going to be so-so, and no matter the level its a very difficult job. Any mistake and people will be all over you. Perfect game and no one will notice.

Bold Seagull · Oct 19, 2020

Swansman said:
Tbf it must be a shit job. Unless you turn PL level the pay is going to be so-so, and no matter the level its a very difficult job. Any mistake and people will be all over you. Perfect game and no one will notice.

I was under the impression that Championship and PL refs are on a retainer of between £30-50k PA, PL you get something like £1200 per game, Championship £600. I don't know how that scales down to L1 & 2 etc. It's not exactly 9 till 5, 5 days a week is it for that. You can probably supplement those earnings with coaching etc. Many ex-Pros from lower down go into trades etc.

You're right though, the structure of producing referees is a long process of starting low and working up through assessments taking a long time. Surely it's time to review that process and how we might go about producing better officials?

I mean, we are at a desperate point when you're looking at Craig Pawson & Michael Oliver being the best of the bunch at the moment.

Seasidesage · Oct 19, 2020

The Large One said:
At the World Cup 2018 in Russia, there were no English referees officiating - on the pitch, nor in VAR. One can possibly infer from that that the best, current English referees aren't good enough for the top stage.

With that in mind, and given that VAR's main problem isn't necessarily its existence - more its application, should retired (ex-FIFA) referees take the VAR role in the Premier League, instead of the current, chummy, refereeing cabal at the moment?

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that you are right.

One of the irritating things of living in this country to set against all the good stuff is our insistence of a ridiculous interpretation of laws without regard to the practicalities of said rules. No common sense applied, no grey areas, just the letter of the law.

Yesterday, its not a penalty nobody applying any common sense could think that the Palace player was pushed to the ground by that challenge. Friend clearly has seen that, we all did but he's unwilling to overrule his mate. Saturday how is Pickford not sent off? Because no common sense is applied and again VAR is unwilling to overrule the ref,

Where is the clear offside for the winning goal in the merseyside derby? Even if it actually is offside and that is debatable its not a clear error, but they are so concerned by the media they refuse to apply common sense. VAR should be used to eliminate the error not to reinforce the ridiculous and it will not change all the time mates are reviewing each others decisions reinforced by rules that straightjacket the application of common sense and fairness.

sydney · Oct 19, 2020

The Large One said:
At the World Cup 2018 in Russia, there were no English referees officiating - on the pitch, nor in VAR. One can possibly infer from that that the best, current English referees aren't good enough for the top stage.

With that in mind, and given that VAR's main problem isn't necessarily its existence - more its application, should retired (ex-FIFA) referees take the VAR role in the Premier League, instead of the current, chummy, refereeing cabal at the moment?

Thoughts?

why not out source VAR to Estonia or Iceland ......at least you wouldn't have some absolute jockey like friend or pawson deciding the fate of the game.

sydney · Oct 19, 2020

Washie said:
The fact i was given the answers in one of our "assessments" at the end of my course that training isn't great here. There seems to be more of an idea of 'get more refs out there' rather than 'get better refs'. I think this is one of the major problems we have in this country. I was also told to go north if i wanted to progress further as a referee as the assessors are a bit more lenient up there, and i have noticed how many northern refs there are in the prem. This was 10 years ago however, and could have just been my instructors.

Manchester seems to have a glut of current refs...

Icy Gull · Oct 19, 2020

Thoughts? If Friend, Atwell or Hoops are refs or on VAR for any Albion game, we’ll get shafted

studio150 · Oct 19, 2020

Back to the OP.
Using retired referees on VAR would seem to be a good idea. While their physical abilities will be reducing, their knowledge of the rules would not and they would clearly be able to provide proper guidance to the on field referee.

It would also ensure that the knowledge acquired during their years of refereeing will be put to a valiable use rather than lost.

Deportivo Seagull · Oct 19, 2020

Seasidesage said:
My thoughts are that you are right.

One of the irritating things of living in this country to set against all the good stuff is our insistence of a ridiculous interpretation of laws without regard to the practicalities of said rules. No common sense applied, no grey areas, just the letter of the law.

Yesterday, its not a penalty nobody applying any common sense could think that the Palace player was pushed to the ground by that challenge. Friend clearly has seen that, we all did but he's unwilling to overrule his mate. Saturday how is Pickford not sent off? Because no common sense is applied and again VAR is unwilling to overrule the ref,

Where is the clear offside for the winning goal in the merseyside derby? Even if it actually is offside and that is debatable its not a clear error, but they are so concerned by the media they refuse to apply common sense. VAR should be used to eliminate the error not to reinforce the ridiculous and it will not change all the time mates are reviewing each others decisions reinforced by rules that straightjacket the application of common sense and fairness.

The disallowed palace goal is a classic case of over analysis. It was very marginal. My view would be that whatever was decided on the pitch would have been the final decision regardless of whether it was given offside are as a goal.

The penalty wasn’t an issue with VAR but just some very poor referring by both the man on the pitch and especially the VAR official.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · Oct 19, 2020

The Large One said:
At the World Cup 2018 in Russia, there were no English referees officiating - on the pitch, nor in VAR. One can possibly infer from that that the best, current English referees aren't good enough for the top stage.

With that in mind, and given that VAR's main problem isn't necessarily its existence - more its application, should retired (ex-FIFA) referees take the VAR role in the Premier League, instead of the current, chummy, refereeing cabal at the moment?

Thoughts?

Yes - however they have to be up to date with the new/current ridiculous rules.

The standard of refereeing in England is without doubt the worst I can remember in my time (50 years of playing/watching)

Javeaseagull · Oct 19, 2020

David Elleray used to be a Football referee who is now in charge of refereeing at IFAB. He has made many changes to the rules in a constant search for “consistency” among referees.
This from a man who was well known in referee circles for telling his assistants that he would make all the decisions during the game. They should look to him before flagging any offences even to the direction of the throw-in. They were only there because the FA insisted on it!
As a Harrow School teacher he was used to having complete control of the game.
He has climbed the slippery pole to the top and should now be held responsible for England having no officials at the 2018 World Cup. Will he be held responsible? Of course not.

Icy Gull · Oct 19, 2020

Javeaseagull said:
David Elleray used to be a Football referee who is now in charge of refereeing at IFAB. He has made many changes to the rules in a constant search for “consistency” among referees.
This from a man who was well known in referee circles for telling his assistants that he would make all the decisions during the game. They should look to him before flagging any offences even to the direction of the throw-in. They were only there because the FA insisted on it!
As a Harrow School teacher he was used to having complete control of the game.
He has climbed the slippery pole to the top and should now be held responsible for England having no officials at the 2018 World Cup. Will he be held responsible? Of course not.

Best ever ref imo, or maybe I just loved how he was the boss in games :shrug:

banjo · Oct 19, 2020

Because most of them are fat bald *****.

Bold Seagull · Oct 19, 2020

Icy Gull said:
Best ever ref imo, or maybe I just loved how he was the boss in games

nwgull · Oct 19, 2020

The Large One said:
At the World Cup 2018 in Russia, there were no English referees officiating - on the pitch, nor in VAR. One can possibly infer from that that the best, current English referees aren't good enough for the top stage.

With that in mind, and given that VAR's main problem isn't necessarily its existence - more its application, should retired (ex-FIFA) referees take the VAR role in the Premier League, instead of the current, chummy, refereeing cabal at the moment?

Thoughts?

I think that you should stop interupting your guests and co-presenter.

Guinness Boy · Oct 19, 2020

My initial, reactionary thought is that VAR needs to get in the sea. And my considered, thoughtful response is that VAR needs to get in the sea.

Refs will only get better with actual game time. We need to step up the process of demoting referees down a divsion. I would be in favour of using recently retired refs but they should be looking at videos of the games after the fact and becoming assessors but also mentors and trainers. Take the refs through games in mid week the way pro players would go over their mistakes in training. Next round of games the best 10 get a PL game and the rest have to squabble over Championship or League One matches. Break up the cosy closed shop and have on field failures refereeing in a lower game instead of sat in a comfy studio backing up their mates. Let's make offside "naked eye" with players on if considered level and, while we're at it, get the ridiculous "made for TV" handball rules back to what they were before VAR came in.

Won't happen though. The ship has sailed. So, if we really can't bin it off then retired ref as the VAR is a pretty good suggestion. Maybe we could import COLLINA in for a shift or two. Aged 60 now but still scary AF and I bet he'd be twice the VAR of the closed shop lot.

m@goo · Oct 19, 2020

The Large One said:
At the World Cup 2018 in Russia, there were no English referees officiating - on the pitch, nor in VAR. One can possibly infer from that that the best, current English referees aren't good enough for the top stage.

With that in mind, and given that VAR's main problem isn't necessarily its existence - more its application, should retired (ex-FIFA) referees take the VAR role in the Premier League, instead of the current, chummy, refereeing cabal at the moment?

Thoughts?

They should either take lessons from the World Cup officials or abolish it altogether. I've always said there's nothing wrong with VAR as the World Cup proved. Indeed it's brilliant when used properly. It's the people using it...

Pondicherry · Oct 19, 2020

Bold Seagull said:
My thoughts are why professional footballers upon retiring are not becoming referees?

I'm not talking the multi-millionaire Premier League players, I'm talking any kind of semi-professional tier 7 or 8 upward. Is there not enough reward? Is it just seen as too awful to contemplate? Are the career paths of say a 35 year old starting referring too difficult to make it to the top level?

Footballers and pundits are the two groups of people who express their opinions on the laws the most whilst actually knowing the least in my experience.

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[Football] Future VAR referees

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