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[Football] Cheating...we simply have to improve



Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,840
Hove
We treat it like a new phenomenon but I'm not so sure it's just more coverage, more camera angles, more discussion that tints our glasses a bit to remember the past as this sort of thing not really happening. My old local team as a boy was Waterlooville FC, and Kenny Todd got 50 goals in a season, something like '85/86, 20 of them were penalties the majority of which he had won. Now I'd never call Toddy a cheat, but he certainly knew how to go down in the penalty area.

Football as always was slow to react, pretty much glacial. FIFA started their Fair Play initiative in the 1980s because so much cheating was going on, and it took till the 1990s before anyone actually started condemning it in any real terms. All we've seen really is heightened coverage and analysis and globalisation of the sport with players from all over the world playing in domestic leagues.

It's not really a modern thing, it's been with us a very long time.
 




F

Farehamseagull

Solly March Fan Club
Nov 22, 2007
14,096
Sarisbury Green, Southampton
The Large One said:
As I was at the game, one thing I suspect the cameras didn't pick up was the constant - and I mean CONSTANT - screaming at the officials for a foul, or a throw-in, or the decision to go their way. Batshuayi's dying tortoise act was one of so many acts of petulance - something that was clearly masking Palace's inadequacies as professional footballers. (Actually, I'll speak up for one Palace player - Gary Cahill, I though, acted as a model professional, getting his over-excited team-mates to calm down, and not going off on one when Dunk clattered him).

Point in case, a throw-in halfway inside the Brighton half (on the opposite side to the camera), and it's slightly contentious as to who gets the decision. In the end, it was a Brighton throw. Three Palace players start giving the Asst ref no end of grief about how he was always favouring Brighton etc, with a liberal dash of good old Anglo-Saxon thrown in. Result? Nada, play on.

Adam Lallana not long after, screams (and it was a hell of a scream) when Lamptey got flattened by Mitchell. His exact words were 'didn't you see that, ref?'. Result, long lecture.
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You're right about Cahill, Zaha and Batshuayi could learn a lot from him.

One of the more lighthearted moments from yesterday was when Cahill and Dunk got called over to talk to the ref after Lamptey and Mitchell had their little scuffle. It was like 2 dads being lectured about their boys behaviour in a local kids match.
 


Uh_huh_him

Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
10,806
Farehamseagull said:
You're right about Cahill, Zaha and Batshuayi could learn a lot from him.

One of the more lighthearted moments from yesterday was when Cahill and Dunk got called over to talk to the ref after Lamptey and Mitchell had their little scuffle. It was like 2 dads being lectured about their boys behaviour in a local kids match.
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And twenty minutes later one of the Dad's twatted the other.
 


grubbyhands

grubbyhands

Well-known member
Dec 8, 2011
2,286
Godalming
portlock seagull said:
Cheats prosper in football as we all know.

Would like to see the club now fine players who don’t try to hook the ball against an opponents arm when in a harmless part of the penalty box; or go down under any near contact. As well as actual contact. Should be drilled into players during training sessions. Before anyone says, but what about VAR...have you NOT been watching?! It makes no difference, the goons in charge still don’t notice.

Also, we need to do far more time wasting, getting in the refs face, manhandling them even, abusing other players to wind them up, take a throw in forty yards further up the line, don’t give the ball back or kick it out if someone’s down etc. It might be against the general spirit of the game but feck it, football lost its integrity a long time ago so we must become more savvy. Cheat in other words.

Thoughts? I would simply love us to be universally loathed because of our “gamesmanship”, it’s something we simply have to improve at and should be coached.
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You don't, I think, really mean a bit of that post. If you do you should be ashamed for suggesting the players cheat. As others have said, I'd rather see us play HONEST attractive football than resort to the dark acts.
 


JBizzle

JBizzle

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2010
5,853
Seaford
The Large One said:
As I was at the game, one thing I suspect the cameras didn't pick up was the constant - and I mean CONSTANT - screaming at the officials for a foul, or a throw-in, or the decision to go their way. Batshuayi's dying tortoise act was one of so many acts of petulance - something that was clearly masking Palace's inadequacies as professional footballers. (Actually, I'll speak up for one Palace player - Gary Cahill, I though, acted as a model professional, getting his over-excited team-mates to calm down, and not going off on one when Dunk clattered him).

Point in case, a throw-in halfway inside the Brighton half (on the opposite side to the camera), and it's slightly contentious as to who gets the decision. In the end, it was a Brighton throw. Three Palace players start giving the Asst ref no end of grief about how he was always favouring Brighton etc, with a liberal dash of good old Anglo-Saxon thrown in. Result? Nada, play on.

Adam Lallana not long after, screams (and it was a hell of a scream) when Lamptey got flattened by Mitchell. His exact words were 'didn't you see that, ref?'. Result, long lecture.
Click to expand...

This is one of the reasons where I think Lallana will make a difference over time. We need a player who's in the referee's ear all match. Clubs like Burnley, I'm sure, stay up year after year in pat because the definitely influence refs with their constant jockeying for decisions.
 






father_and_son

father_and_son

Well-known member
Jan 23, 2012
4,646
Under the Police Box
The Large One said:
Can I just say there's no such thing as a 'soft penalty'...?

It either is a penalty or it isn't. The issue then is within the opinion of the referee (the only person, sadly, whose opinion counts). If an incident has crossed a threshold for the ref to deem it a penalty, it's a penalty (or at least should be given).

The issue about yesterday's decision isn't the consideration of it being a 'soft penalty', it's to do with the point that Lamptey's light touch on Batshuayi's shoulder shouldn't have been considered a foul. Because it wasn't. There is nothing 'Tiq' did to make him go over.
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Of course there is a "soft penalty". As you say, there's a threshold that a ref will blow up for. An offence really close to the line would be considered soft, especially if from a different angle, on a different day it wouldn't have been given. An offence that is really blatant is at the other end of the scale.

Yes, a soft penalty *is* a penalty, but it can still be "only just" a penalty, which is, by definition, disputable.
 


W

warmleyseagull

Well-known member
Apr 17, 2011
4,228
Beaminster, Dorset
Difficult to objectivise what successful cheating means in practice.

One proxy might be fouls. On that measure there is nothing in it: 71 fouls against Brighron in 5 matches this season; 68 by Brighton.

Does falling over in penalty area count against us? Two conceded by fouls, only 2nd of which was contentious; two given for us that were not contentious. Can’t see a lot there. Indeed Connolly is in danger of Oscar awards.

I know what OP means: we do seem to less streetwise than other teams, but I am struggling to put a finger on exactly what with substantive evidence.
 




B

boik

Well-known member
Sep 3, 2011
3,386
Between Happiness and Heartache
SittingbourneSeagull said:
The thing is VAR was supposed to help with decision making. They should be able to see clearly when there has been an attempt to cheat and players should be punished accordingly, but that isn't happening.

They seem increasingly loathe to overturn the original decision of the referee and that will just encourage players to continue cheating.

Connolly is getting a reputation now for diving although yesterday the contact on him was no less than the penalty they were awarded.
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I have some sympathy for Connolly. There was a definite one handed push between the shoulder blades. It might not have been the hardest, but it doesn't take much if you're already off balance. If he looked to go down rather than get a shot away then he's not going to make a top striker. I've seen enough to see that he likes to get a shot away if he can.
 


portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
17,244
BadFish said:
The penalty was described on Optus Sport as 'clever'! To me its cheating, pure and simple.

I would rather we stupidly kept trying to do the right thing instead of practicing the dark arts.

Of course Connolly has a crack but usually it doesn't seem to pay off.

Most disappointing things for me is that VAR was supposed to signal the end for this kind of shit.

Unless of course that actually was a penalty in this day and age. If this is the case, I am not sure I want any part of this nonsense.

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk
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The Wizard said:
I think it’s one of Potters naiveties, not in a bad way because he’s a young manager who wants to do the right things, but there comes a point when it’s actually costing us. I’ve noticed it several times this season, the decisions are becoming softer and softer, it’s starting to remind me of the spanish league with how easy players can buy free kicks and even penalties with little to no contact, it’s where VAR becomes a nonsense because just because there is a minute amount of contact doesn’t mean it warrants a penalty. Chelsea, Palace and Everton all stand out to me as games I remember being infuriated by the opposition antics.

Every set piece yesterday there was contact between players, if they are going to award penalties for things like that incident yesterday, we should have been awarded one every single time we put a ball in the box, at one point Burn was literally being bear hugged and Dunk was practically head locked for his header that went just off target, with no attempt to play the ball?

Lesson? Cheats prosper, and we can’t beat teams in a tight division like this by being nice, you don’t get points for being nice.
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Reddleman said:
I don’t agree with outright cheating but we definitely need to get more niggly and streetwise.

When we are winning or drawing a game where we are happy with the point we should be slowing down free kicks, wrestling for the ball at throw ins, going down and staying down to break up the game. We should also be willing to foul a player during a counter attack and take a booking.

We are too naive and need to toughen up to be able to see out a game. That was one think we knew how to do under Hughton.
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:whistle::wink:
 


pasty

pasty

A different kind of pasty
Jul 5, 2003
30,366
West, West, West Sussex
Maybe Trossard should have hurled himself to the ground earlier screaming like like a banshee. Might have got the decision then.
 




portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
17,244
pasty said:
Maybe Trossard should have hurled himself to the ground earlier screaming like like a banshee. Might have got the decision then.
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It’s what we need to do. We need to BATTER the ref with abuse and objections, like he’s some evil COD.
 


Sheebo

Sheebo

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2003
29,302
Absolute joke VAR once again. Did they not see the pen palace got given against us - it’s there to still favour the ‘big 6’ still isn’t it. And how the pen was clear and obvious I’ll never know. As it clearly and obviously wasn’t clear and obvious. *****.
 


B

BrianWade4

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2010
3,152
A nice bit of South London
Didn’t Wayne Rooney call it the dark arts? And bemoan the fact that the English national team needed to sharpen up this part of our game?

We are too nice. And nice boys don’t win:-

Tim Henman.
Frank Bruno.
Eddie The Eagle.
 






portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
17,244
BrianWade4 said:
Didn’t Wayne Rooney call it the dark arts? And bemoan the fact that the English national team needed to sharpen up this part of our game?

We are too nice. And nice boys don’t win:-

Tim Henman.
Frank Bruno.
Eddie The Eagle.
Click to expand...

They all won the hearts of the nation though :sick:
 




portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
17,244






portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
17,244
Weststander said:
I liked the movie. Endearing.

A harmless bloke who took part in a hellishly dangerous sport.
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It was and yep, he basically did that roger moore James Bond scene (with a young Charles dance in pursuit!) countless times. I mean, it’s insanely dangerous. Sod breaking records, I’d just try not to break both legs on every practice run! A hero.
 


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