Welcoming refugees. Well done Brits!

Thunder Bolt · Nov 25, 2021

Let me introduce you to Dr Waheed Arian who was a refugee granted asylum here. Look him in the face and thank him for working in the NHS and paying taxes.

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vegster · Nov 25, 2021

Durlston said:
So Emmanuel Macron still hasn't resigned after this shameful tragedy? Shame on him. Despicable man.

What about our Home Secretary who is facing three legal battles on her plans to force back asylum seekers with patrol boats, prosecute RNLI personnel if they rescue those at risk of drowning and evaluated using " wave machines " and nets to disable small boats?

Where is your " Despicable" meter on her?

Durlston · Nov 25, 2021

vegster said:
What about our Home Secretary who is facing three legal battles on her plans to force back asylum seekers with patrol boats, prosecute RNLI personnel if they rescue those at risk of drowning and evaluated using " wave machines " and nets to disable small boats?

Where is your " Despicable" meter on her?

That's completely different, vegster.

I respect your opinion. Time will tell I guess on Priti Patel.

Lever · Nov 25, 2021

https://news.sky.com/video/migrants-french-police-watch-on-as-migrants-cross-channel-12429301

Police suggesting they had insufficient manpower to keep a large number of immigrants from trying to cross the channel....

Lever · Nov 25, 2021

Chicken Run said:
MP for Calais on Radio 5 this morning, suggested that the UK were at fault with this ongoing situation by making the UK ‘magnifique ‘ nice houses money etc
This all the while while photos are circulating of French Police watching on as people climb into dingys on the beach.

Let’s be brutally honest the French authorities want them as much as the Uk…

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

'Honest' is sufficient... we've had enough 'brutality' on this site.

An atmosphere of hostility has been generated between some of the British and French stakeholders post Brexit; that was fairly predictable and unsurprising; but it is also the case that structures of communication and co-operation have gone into abeyance.....

The comments (accurate or otherwise) made by the MP for Calais are probably partly partisan/political and certainly unhelpful.

The emotive anti-French language of The Express 'French police just stand and watch as cheering migrants board dinghy to cross Channel' and The Telegraph 'French police 'stood by and watched' migrants hours before deadly Channel crossing' ...is abject propaganda, entirely in keeping with their longstanding pro Brexit, anti all things EU style.

Your reaction to these two factors is in my opinion predictable too, given political views you have expressed previously. I accept they come from honestly held beliefs but I reject the notion that, for instance, photographs and damning headlines published by the Telegraph or the Express reveal objectivity; they merely enforce the prejudices of their right wing readership.

Thunder Bolt · Nov 25, 2021

Durlston said:
So Emmanuel Macron still hasn't resigned after this shameful tragedy? Shame on him. Despicable man.

The British government haven't paid him money they promised.

Do you think Johnson would resign if people were leaving Britain wholesale? Somehow, I doubt it.

Chicken Run · Nov 25, 2021

Lever said:
Honest is enough... we've had enough brutality on this site.

An atmosphere of hostility has been generated between some of the British and French stakeholders post Brexit; that was fairly predictable and unsurprising; but it is also the case that structures of communication and co-operation have gone into abeyance.....

The comments (accurate or otherwise) made by the MP for Calais are probably partly political and unhelpful.

The emotive anti-French language of The Express 'French police just stand and watch as cheering migrants board dinghy to cross Channel' and The Telegraph 'French police 'stood by and watched' migrants hours before deadly Channel crossing ...is abject propaganda that is entirely in keeping with their longstanding pro Brexit, confrontational style.

Your reaction to these two factors is in my opinion predictable too, given other political views you have expressed. I accept they come from honestly held beliefs but I reject the notion that, for instance, photographs published by the Telegraph or the Express reveal objectivity; they merely enforce the prejudices of their right wing readership.

Well the Sky News video showing clear visual evidence that the Police are watching and doing nothing surely can’t be described as pandering to their right wing viewers?

https://youtu.be/Ghi_pN7Jj7w

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Thunder Bolt · Nov 25, 2021

The Refugee Council’s analysis, using Home Office data and Freedom of Information requests, found that 91% of people who travelled by boat across the Channel came from 10 countries where human rights abuses and persecution were common.
These were Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Vietnam, Kuwait, Ethiopia, Eritrea and Yemen
The charity’s investigation revealed that overall, nearly two-thirds of people arriving here in small boats are deemed to be genuine refugees and allowed to remain.
Of those arriving from Syria, 88% were granted asylum at the initial decision stage. From Eritrea, 84%.
And, for example, of those from Syria not granted asylum at first, 73% were granted asylum on appeal.

Lever · Nov 25, 2021

Chicken Run said:
Well the Sky News video showing clear visual evidence that the Police are watching and doing nothing surely can’t be described as pandering to their right wing viewers?

https://youtu.be/Ghi_pN7Jj7w

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Before responding, I must say having straightforward, impersonal, 'political' exchanges with you, without distractions about site 'handles', accusations of lying and other irrelevancies is really refreshing and I do thank you for that.

Regards your comment, I am not about to try and defend that situation; I don't know enough, wasn't present at the event and anyway it was mediated; fundamentally it is a human tragedy and I suggest we all await further scrutiny (from all sides) before passing judgement or pointing a finger of blame on the basis of political predispositions.

Regarding the Sky piece - even though the police claim (off the record) that their inaction was a result of having insufficient manpower one suspects they could have done something more than they did. But as I say, it is best to have an open mind at this stage.

Do you think the Murdoch-owned Sky channel (or any other media outlet, left or right wing, for that matter) is a 'voice of objectivity'?

I do consider the Express and Telegraph articles to be particularly pernicious. The truth is rarely pure and never simple but they know their audience well and this is an inappropriate, instant, sabre-rattling reaction to a shocking, awful event. I hope you can find some measure of agreement with that view......

AK74 · Nov 25, 2021

Lever said:
Do you think the Murdoch-owned Sky channel (or any other media outlet, left or right wing, for that matter) is a 'voice of objectivity'?

Minor point: Sky was sold to Comcast in 2018, ending Murdoch's ownership.

Lever · Nov 25, 2021

AK74 said:
Minor point: Sky was sold to Comcast in 2018, ending Murdoch's ownership.

You're right! Thank you. Shamefully, I had forgotten that!

I think my point is that the main objective of SKY is to generate audience figures/ justify the subscription fee rather than be unstintingly objective.

Also dispassionate, forensic analysis of exactly what happened does not fit in well with 24 hour rolling news....

Chicken Run · Nov 25, 2021

Lever said:
You're right! Thank you. Shamefully, I had forgotten that!

I think my point is that the main objective of SKY is to generate audience figures/ justify the subscription fee rather than be unstintingly objective.

Also dispassionate, forensic analysis of exactly what happened does not fit in well with 24 hour rolling news....

Setting aside for one moment the media and any perceived bias, also political sabre rattling it is absolutely clear the Police on that beach, certainly on that day and in front of media chose to let those people take their dingy into the sea, in broad daylight that can’t be right surely?

I’ll say again the French don’t want the people there imho.

It won’t be long though until winter storms will suspend the crossings and I can only hope the British & French authorities work together on a solution.

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WATFORD zero · Nov 25, 2021

Chicken Run said:
Setting aside for one moment the media and any perceived bias, also political sabre rattling it is absolutely clear the Police on that beach, certainly on that day and in front of media chose to let those people take their dingy into the sea, in broad daylight that can’t be right surely?

I’ll say again the French don’t want the people there imho.

It won’t be long though until winter storms will suspend the crossings and I can only hope the British & French authorities work together on a solution.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

As does everyone. Unfortunately, all indications are that the problem is actually getting worse and I can't see what that solution would be

Has Brexit made dealing with illegal migration more difficult?

A record number of migrants have crossed the English channel from France this year, despite UK immigration policy no longer being tied to EU rules. Ministers have acknowledged the situation is a crisis, with the Home Secretary repeatedly vowing to make small boat crossings "unviable" - but little progress has been made.

Having pledged to "take back control" of the UK's borders post-Brexit, ministers now acknowledge the ability to deal with aspects of illegal migration has been hampered by the loss of certain arrangements that came with EU membership. So far in 2021 more than 25,700 people have completed the perilous journey across the Dover Strait, the busiest shipping lane in the world - three times the total for 2020.Of these people who have made it to UK shores, a government minister revealed last week just five people had been returned to Europe.

Following Brexit, the UK lost it's seat on the management board for Europol - the European Union Agency for Law Enforcement Cooperation - and British officers can no longer interrogate the Europol database. This will impact the UK’s efforts to dismantle immigrant smuggling networks.

https://news.sky.com/story/has-brexit-made-the-uk-more-attractive-for-illegal-migration-12477985

franks brother · Nov 25, 2021

It’s not those coming from France that affect your life, it’s those coming from Eton.

Lever · Nov 25, 2021

Chicken Run said:
Setting aside for one moment the media and any perceived bias, also political sabre rattling it is absolutely clear the Police on that beach, certainly on that day and in front of media chose to let those people take their dingy into the sea, in broad daylight that can’t be right surely?

I’ll say again the French don’t want the people there imho.

It won’t be long though until winter storms will suspend the crossings and I can only hope the British & French authorities work together on a solution.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Fair points..... thank you.

I feel 'goodwill' would have been a bit more 'formalised' with the UK still in the EU - but then I would say that, wouldn't I....

For all I know, the French police may be partly to blame but no one knows the details yet and simple francophobe outrage is wholly unhelpful. Unless we can forge a collaborative way forward instead of French and British politicians cynically putting the blame on each other, then many other 'channel crossers' will die unnecessarily.

Brexit is/was an avoidable obstacle to collaboration and integrated response in my opinion.

Thunder Bolt · Nov 25, 2021

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First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me

Lever · Nov 25, 2021

Thunder Bolt said:
[tweet]1463868916074229766[/tweet]

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me

This is one of the strongest statements I have ever read and It has had a huge influence on me throughout my life. Edward Leigh’s comments on the other hand simply disgust me.

Thunder Bolt · Nov 25, 2021

Lever said:
This is one of the strongest statements I have ever read and It has had a huge influence on me throughout my life. Edward Leigh’s comments on the other hand simply disgust me.

I agree strongly. We are all human and have rights, everyone of us.
This government wants a dictatorship, and no protests.
Dangerous times.

pastafarian · Nov 25, 2021

Randy McNob said:
I won't hold my breath at this incompetent government resolving it nor their support base blaming everyone exept them despite the boat crossings increasing six fold under their watch. At the end of the day, all the time the people that voted for them, and would again, never hold them to account for the reasons they elected them i.e. supposedly tough on immigration / controlling borders, the problem will fester and get worse. No accountability

Curtailing the activities of the criminal smuggling gangs (who are the ones responsible for smuggling) operating on French territory that is within French jurisdiction must primarily be the remit of French law enforcement and up to the French legal system to dispense punishment. Your continued insistence that it must be the UK government who must resolve criminal activity by criminal gangs in France is plain daft.
What do you want the UK to do to the criminal smuggling gangs in France? Go over to French soil and arrest the traffickers and drag them to the French courts?

Randy McNob said:
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This is the sort of nonsense from twitter you believe and spread because you are incapable of your own reasoned thought process.
It is the people smuggling gangs who are responsible for people smuggling. France are not smuggling people. French law enforcement however has a duty to do everything in its powers to stamp out the criminal smuggling activity taking place in its jurisdiction….. that results in smuggling victims drowning.

The Clamp · Nov 25, 2021

Any society that entertains a leader who spends £200,000 of public money doing up his flat but argues we cannot afford to house refugees, needs to take a long, hard, look at itself.

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Welcoming refugees. Well done Brits!

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