[Misc] Electrical/lighting help

CheeseRolls · Oct 14, 2020

Good Folk of NSC - I have a kitchen spotlight, which was fitted as an afterthought. I wanted it sorted so agreed at the time that it wasn't really going to be a problem to not use a low energy fitting. Several years later I have a selection of low energy bulbs in stock, but this is the one that has gone.

I thought it woudl be a simple swap over turn off circuit, unscrew, screw in new fitting and replace (it was apart from a lot of plaster mess taking the fitting out). When I switched it off and switched it on again (see I have pre-empted the question there) it didn't work. On further investigation there is a blue box in line which is a Tamlite EU-2060 20-60VA. I think I just need to remove this and wire up the GU10 fitting in its place.

Before I set fire to the house/give myself a nasty shock anyone able to state with any authority if I am on the right lines here?

Thanks in advance for the helpful and I expect unhelpful suggestions.

zefarelly · Oct 14, 2020

the lighting circuit should be on an individual circuit breaker, I'd turn that off first . . . .

Tamelite is a transformer . . . . so if not needed, remove and wire new light fitting to 240 supply. I'm assuming the GU is a 240v bulb?

Official Old Man · Oct 14, 2020

As above. But whilst not an electrician I have recently done all my kitchen lights. Pro said to use fireproof fittings for safety. I used something similar to these https://www.toolstation.com/sylvania-fire-rated-fixed-gu10-downlight/p13444

zefarelly · Oct 14, 2020

I remember the good times said:
But whilst not an electrician I have recently done all my kitchen lights.

ME neither, buts it's only a 5 minute job!

CheeseRolls · Oct 14, 2020

Fixed, thanks.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

moggy · Oct 14, 2020

Possible the box was the driver for an led spot

Justice · Oct 14, 2020

Always amazes me how people with obviously no clue dabble with electrics, incorrect methods can kill, cause fires putting you and your family at risk the first thing your insurance company will ask for if you have any incidents will be proof you used a qualified sparks :shrug:

it really is no concern of mine but being in the trade some 35 years I’ve seen it all. 90% of DIY down light installations are incorrect.

BN9 BHA · Oct 14, 2020

Justice said:
Always amazes me how people with obviously no clue dabble with electrics, incorrect methods can kill, cause fires putting you and your family at risk the first thing your insurance company will ask for if you have any incidents will be proof you used a qualified sparks it really is no concern of mine but being in the trade some 35 years I’ve seen it all. 90% of DIY down light installations are incorrect.

Post#18 on the building quotes thread will interest you.

Weststander · Oct 14, 2020

Mods - please merge with Circuit breaker thread.

CheeseRolls · Oct 14, 2020

Justice said:
Always amazes me how people with obviously no clue dabble with electrics, incorrect methods can kill, cause fires putting you and your family at risk the first thing your insurance company will ask for if you have any incidents will be proof you used a qualified sparks it really is no concern of mine but being in the trade some 35 years I’ve seen it all. 90% of DIY down light installations are incorrect.

Point taken. Could you please provide a quote to come and hold the ladder for me, whilst I return my light to its former non-working state. I have not received proper Health and Safety training

Justice · Oct 14, 2020

CheeseRolls said:
Point taken. Could you please provide a quote to come and hold the ladder for me, whilst I return my light to its former non-working state. I have not received proper Health and Safety training

I’m thinking you need more than a health & safety course :shrug:

After I have a box not sure what it is, I’ve pulled half the ceiling out trying to replace a lamp

CheeseRolls · Oct 14, 2020

Justice said:
I’m thinking you need more than a health & safety course After I have a box not sure what it is, I’ve pulled half the ceiling out trying to replace a lamp

The helpful folks on this thread pointed out that it was an LED transformer.

Two minutes to clean up and a follow up with a little filler, maybe another 5 minutes.

Always nice to be patronised by a professional.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Justice · Oct 14, 2020

CheeseRolls said:
The helpful folks on this thread pointed out that it was an LED transformer.

Two minutes to clean up and a follow up with a little filler, maybe another 5 minutes.

Always nice to be patronised by a professional.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

LED transformers don’t exist LED drivers do though and they wouldn’t be rated at 20-60va they start at 0. A common problem arises when folk try to dim LED lamps with a normal dimmer and wonder why they flicker same thing LED dimmers start at 0w not 20, most LED lamps operate at around 4w.

moggy · Oct 14, 2020

Justice said:
LED transformers don’t exist LED drivers do though and they wouldn’t be rated at 20-60va they start at 0. A common problem arises when folk try to dim LED lamps with a normal dimmer and wonder why they flicker same thing LED dimmers start at 0w not 20, most LED lamps operate at around 4w.

And also using the wrong driver, especially understanding the difference between a constant voltage driver or a constant current driver.

Hu_Camus · Oct 15, 2020

Weststander said:
Mods - please merge with Circuit breaker thread.

There'll be some resistance.

Blue3 · Oct 15, 2020

Justice said:
LED transformers don’t exist LED drivers do though and they wouldn’t be rated at 20-60va they start at 0. A common problem arises when folk try to dim LED lamps with a normal dimmer and wonder why they flicker same thing LED dimmers start at 0w not 20, most LED lamps operate at around 4w.

At the risk of being pedantic LED step down transformer forms part of the driver as per the attached diagram shows, what has intrested me is the method of rectification used being not full rectification you will note the use of only two diodes to form a half bridge effectively producing a DC output by chopping the top and bottom of the AC wave which leads to inefficiency that the manafactures do not mention instead focasting instead on the super efficiency of the LED lamps

Justice · Oct 15, 2020

Blue3 said:
At the risk of being pedantic LED step down transformer forms part of the driver as per the attached diagram shows, what has intrested me is the method of rectification used being not full rectification you will note the use of only two diodes to form a half bridge effectively producing a DC output by chopping the top and bottom of the AC wave which leads to inefficiency that the manafactures do not mention instead focasting instead on the super efficiency of the LED lamps

View attachment 129488

The fundamental difference between an LED driver and a normal LV lighting transformer is

Blue3 · Oct 15, 2020

Justice said:
The fundamental difference between an LED driver and a normal LV lighting transformer is

Purely from the point of view of the transformer there no difference between a transformer in either a driver built within an LED lamp or a transformer built within a stand alone driver or any other form of LV lighting other than size and transformer configuration I was just making the point that drivers do have transformers built in or are attached to an external transformer

Justice · Oct 15, 2020

Blue3 said:
Purely from the point of view of the transformer there no difference between a transformer in either a driver built within an LED lamp or a transformer built within a stand alone driver or any other form of LV lighting other than size and transformer configuration I was just making the point that drivers do have transformers built in or are attached to an external transformer

The outputs are different LED drivers output DC whilst the conventional LV transformer gives an ac output.

Muhammed - I’m hard - Bruce Lee · Oct 15, 2020

Not having a pop at anyone, but there’s a reason people in various trades go to colleges and do apprenticeships etc.
Then to spend 30 plus years in whatever trade they choose as their vocation, only to have DIYers nause stuff up and then expect us to sort it out...nightmare.
Lighting systems are a prime example, people see a pendant, drop a rose and find 12 wires up there.
I’ve lost count of the amount of times that I’ve had to sort lights out.
Don’t even get me started on 2 way switching or intermediate lighting circuits....
How many times have I heard ‘my mate reckons’ or ‘I googled it’, even worse ‘my mate had a go’

When someone asks for advice and it is freely given (by someone in the trade), respect that advice or call an expert in.
I know my limitations....electrics, domestic appliances and central heating systems.
If I need any building or woodwork done, I get someone in.
Rant over.
As you were x

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