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[Finance] Consumer Advice



jonnyrovers

jonnyrovers

mostly tinpot
Aug 13, 2013
1,181
Shoreham-by-Sea
Dear NSC Wisdom please help me.

In September I sold my little Yamaha RIB & 4HP outboard to a lovely bloke from Hove. I was chuffed to get £650 for it, exactly what I paid for it 5 years ago. As part of the sale I started and ran the outboard for half a minute to demonstrate it worked. I also declared that as I hardly ever used the outboard I had never had it serviced.

2 weeks later he calls me as he can't get the outboard to start. I offer to go to his house and have a look at it. I'm no expert. I go at it until my arm is falling off and cannot get it started. He tells me he's spoken to a marine mechanic who will service it for £100. I concede that that is I cost I would likely have incurred during my ownership and I offer to pay for the service.

Last weekend he texts me to say that due to pump & exhaust issues the service came to £300. How do I want to pay? I say that was not a number I expected to hear, or the number I agreed to in his garden. A very long passive aggressive text tirade follows in which I go extra generous and offer to go halves. He then launches an attack on my decency and starts quoting the consumer rights act at me with lots of exclamation marks!!!!!

I remind him how reasonable I've been and tell him that he's now on his own. I retract my offer of half the service.

My mind is open to the fact that I may have got this wrong, which is why I'm asking you fine folk.

Thank you

JR
 




highflyer

highflyer

Well-known member
Jan 21, 2016
2,434
jonnyrovers said:
Dear NSC Wisdom please help me.

In September I sold my little Yamaha RIB & 4HP outboard to a lovely bloke from Hove. I was chuffed to get £650 for it, exactly what I paid for it 5 years ago. As part of the sale I started and ran the outboard for half a minute to demonstrate it worked. I also declared that as I hardly ever used the outboard I had never had it serviced.

2 weeks later he calls me as he can't get the outboard to start. I offer to go to his house and have a look at it. I'm no expert. I go at it until my arm is falling off and cannot get it started. He tells me he's spoken to a marine mechanic who will service it for £100. I concede that that is I cost I would likely have incurred during my ownership and I offer to pay for the service.

Last weekend he texts me to say that due to pump & exhaust issues the service came to £300. How do I want to pay? I say that was not a number I expected to hear, or the number I agreed to in his garden. A very long passive aggressive text tirade follows in which I go extra generous and offer to go halves. He then launches an attack on my decency and starts quoting the consumer rights act at me with lots of exclamation marks!!!!!

I remind him how reasonable I've been and tell him that he's now on his own. I retract my offer of half the service.

My mind is open to the fact that I may have got this wrong, which is why I'm asking you fine folk.

Thank you

JR
Click to expand...

He bought a second hand motor, private sale, sold as seen.
You were generous and decent in your offer(s) when things went wrong.

Unless there is something that you haven't told us, you got this right. Sleep easy
 


Beach Hut

Beach Hut

Brighton Bhuna Boy
Jul 5, 2003
71,963
Living In a Box
highflyer said:
He bought a second hand motor, private sale, sold as seen.
You were generous and decent in your offer(s) when things went wrong.

Unless there is something that you haven't told us, you got this right. Sleep easy
Click to expand...

My view as well, if he was that concerned at protecting his acquisition was sound he should have stated at the point of sale he would get it mechanically checked.
 


Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,534
He could have a case if it can be shown that you miss-represented the item.

The fact that it was working at the time he bought it should weigh in your favour though.

'Private sales

The Consumer Rights Act has made the conditions surrounding buying from retailers much clearer, but the protection offered by both that and the Sale of Goods Act 1979 is much more limited when it comes to buying second hand from individuals.

The rules about items being of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose no longer apply - instead we're much more reliant on the clause about them being as described.

There's no obligation on the seller to disclose any faults, but misrepresenting goods isn't allowed.

Say we're looking for a second hand car in the classified ads. The seller doesn't have to tell us that it's impossible to select second gear, or that the bonnet doesn't securely shut.

But they can't tell us it's a good little runner when it doesn't start half the time, and they must tell us the truth if we ask them about something we notice - for example why a door is a different colour from the rest of the car.

Or we're buying baby clothes second hand. If the private seller tells us they're "blue" and they turn out to be blue with lots of baby stains on them, we've got no claim.

But if they tell us the clothes we're buying are "blue and like new", and they've got some kind of stain on them, they've misrepresented the items - even if the stains aren't baby-related - and we're on far firmer ground asking for a refund or replacement'
 
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jonnyrovers

jonnyrovers

mostly tinpot
Aug 13, 2013
1,181
Shoreham-by-Sea
highflyer said:
He bought a second hand motor, private sale, sold as seen.
You were generous and decent in your offer(s) when things went wrong.

Unless there is something that you haven't told us, you got this right. Sleep easy
Click to expand...

Thank you. I thought I was going nuts!
 








jonnyrovers

jonnyrovers

mostly tinpot
Aug 13, 2013
1,181
Shoreham-by-Sea
Brighton Lines said:
He could have a case if it can be shown that you miss-represented the item.

The fact that it was working at the time he bought it should weigh in your favour though.

'Private sales

The Consumer Rights Act has made the conditions surrounding buying from retailers much clearer, but the protection offered by both that and the Sale of Goods Act 1979 is much more limited when it comes to buying second hand from individuals.

The rules about items being of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose no longer apply - instead we're much more reliant on the clause about them being as described.

There's no obligation on the seller to disclose any faults, but misrepresenting goods isn't allowed.

Say we're looking for a second hand car in the classified ads. The seller doesn't have to tell us that it's impossible to select second gear, or that the bonnet doesn't securely shut.

But they can't tell us it's a good little runner when it doesn't start half the time, and they must tell us the truth if we ask them about something we notice - for example why a door is a different colour from the rest of the car.

Or we're buying baby clothes second hand. If the private seller tells us they're "blue" and they turn out to be blue with lots of baby stains on them, we've got no claim.

But if they tell us the clothes we're buying are "blue and like new", and they've got some kind of stain on them, they've misrepresented the items - even if the stains aren't baby-related - and we're on far firmer ground asking for a refund or replacement'
Click to expand...

This is interesting thank you. I've just rechecked the advert I put in gumtree. I've written 'easy to start' by the outboard (because it always was). I started it with one or two pulls in front of him before he bought it. He claims not o have been able to start it at all.

In the context of your examples above where does this leave me?
 








beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,303
if he wants to play consumer rights act, the only thing you have to give is a refund. ask to have the receipt for works done, so you can pay direct, and take back the motor. you can sell it on again as serviced and new exhaust to hopfully recover the cost.

or maybe you'll not hear any more.
 






Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,534
jonnyrovers said:
This is interesting thank you. I've just rechecked the advert I put in gumtree. I've written 'easy to start' by the outboard (because it always was). I started it with one or two pulls in front of him before he bought it. He claims not o have been able to start it at all.

In the context of your examples above where does this leave me?
Click to expand...

Not sure. It comes under the Misrepresentation Act.

2 Damages for misrepresentation.
(1)Where a person has entered into a contract after a misrepresentation has been made to him by another party thereto and as a result thereof he has suffered loss, then, if the person making the misrepresentation would be liable to damages in respect thereof had the misrepresentation been made fraudulently, that person shall be so liable notwithstanding that the misrepresentation was not made fraudulently, unless he proves that he had reasonable ground to believe and did believe up to the time the contract was made the facts represented were true.

My view (this is not a legal view) is that you did have reasonable grounds to believe that it was easy to start and demonstrated it to be so. I think your offer to meet half the costs was very reasonable.

But, as I said, I'm no expert on this.
 
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jonnyrovers

jonnyrovers

mostly tinpot
Aug 13, 2013
1,181
Shoreham-by-Sea
Weststander said:
Wake up to slashed car tyres or similar. Sadly, a lot of aggressive morons in this nation, have to have the last ‘say’ on a matter.
Click to expand...

To be fair he seems to be an ok bloke. Maybe just a bit deluded. Won't own his own decisions. Think everyone else should fix his problems for him.
 


jonnyrovers

jonnyrovers

mostly tinpot
Aug 13, 2013
1,181
Shoreham-by-Sea
beorhthelm said:
if he wants to play consumer rights act, the only thing you have to give is a refund. ask to have the receipt for works done, so you can pay direct, and take back the motor. you can sell it on again as serviced and new exhaust to hopfully recover the cost.

or maybe you'll not hear any more.
Click to expand...

Hopefully the latter
 






jonnyrovers

jonnyrovers

mostly tinpot
Aug 13, 2013
1,181
Shoreham-by-Sea
Brighton Lines said:
Not sure. It comes under the Misrepresentation Act.

2 Damages for misrepresentation.
(1)Where a person has entered into a contract after a misrepresentation has been made to him by another party thereto and as a result thereof he has suffered loss, then, if the person making the misrepresentation would be liable to damages in respect thereof had the misrepresentation been made fraudulently, that person shall be so liable notwithstanding that the misrepresentation was not made fraudulently, unless he proves that he had reasonable ground to believe and did believe up to the time the contract was made the facts represented were true.

My view (this is not a legal view) is that you did have reasonable grounds to believe that it was easy to start and demonstrated it to be so. I think your offer to meet half the costs was very reasonable.

But, as I said, I'm no expert on this.
Click to expand...

You may be no expert but you are clearly a very organised thinker. Thank you for this.
 


grubbyhands

grubbyhands

Well-known member
Dec 8, 2011
2,285
Godalming
I'd really like to be able to give you an opinion but,as I ride a motorbike and am therefore an organ donor, I'm afraid my heart isn't in it.:D
 


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