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[News] Amazon



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Springal

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2005
23,841
GOSBTS
Amazon this week announced its financials for it's UK operation.

Revenues of £3Bn (up 30%), Profits of £100M (up 35%), tax paid £14M (No increase)

Discuss. Should more be done to these large corporations to ensure they are paying their fair share? Or does the benefits these companies bring to the local market make up for it.

I know some posters on here think as long as a tech company gives loads of jobs and pays high wages to staff it doesn't matter, but I'm not so sure.
 




FatSuperman

FatSuperman

Well-known member
Feb 25, 2016
2,830
The argument that it doesn't matter as long as they provide jobs is not fair. Other companies that aren't taking the piss are suffering, not through being worse at execution, but because Amazon are 'cheating'.

If every other company did the same as these tax dodgers, then we would end up paying the costs.

Perhaps that would be ok? Just put absolutely everything on VAT, so the biggest consumers pay the most - once we're out of the EU we can do that. And I will subsequently set up two businesses - a cheap travel company to take people to Calais, to buy everything at a reasonable VAT rate. And a smuggling company.
 


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rippleman

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2011
4,574
I won't use Amazon and would encourage others to do likewise until they start paying their fair share of taxes on the billions of profits they make. It's shameful that our government continues to avoid introducing legislation to hammer the corporate tax dodgers.
 




KZNSeagull

KZNSeagull

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
19,823
Wolsingham, County Durham
Well at least they are now making a profit and are paying something. Bloody ridiculous though that a company can take so much revenue but make so little profit and therefore pay so little tax. I am not aware that they pay high wages but they are creating jobs, but I would guess that far more have been lost on the high street because of their business model over the years.
 




studio150

studio150

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2011
29,629
On the Border
Amazon said its tax bill had been offset by government incentives related to its investment in infrastructure as it caters to soaring demand for home shopping and IT services in the UK.
 


S

Springal

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2005
23,841
GOSBTS
KZNSeagull said:
Well at least they are now making a profit and are paying something. Bloody ridiculous though that a company can take so much revenue but make so little profit and therefore pay so little tax. I am not aware that they pay high wages but they are creating jobs, but I would guess that far more have been lost on the high street because of their business model over the years.
Click to expand...

Possibly not Amazon , but certainly Amazon Web Services has exploded in the U.K. They are hoovering you IT talent all over the place and big offices in London & Manchester. Decent wages but high pressure from what I understand
 


keaton

keaton

Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
Nov 18, 2004
9,664
It's shit. But that's £14m more tax than Netflix pay apparently
 






B

Brian Parsons

New member
May 16, 2013
571
Bicester, Oxfordshire.
Amazon have been a godsend to the likes of myself during the recent lockdown. Without their be t day deliveries I'm sure I would not gave survived the lockdown. Plus they are saving me shed loads of money and as a pensioner that I my eyes can only be good. So they dont pay full back at least they're paying something unlike other huge companies.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk
 






Peteinblack

Peteinblack

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jun 3, 2004
3,618
Bath, Somerset.
If only governments were even 1% as zealous in clamping down on tax-dodging corporations as they are in hounding and vilifying genuine welfare claimants.

Far, far, more is lost through tax avoidance than through social security fraud, yet it is the latter that the public gets angry about, and thus allows governments to turn a blind eye to corporate tax dodgers.

https://www.indy100.com/article/ben...idance-billions-government-statistics-8056846
 


BNthree

BNthree

Plastic JCL
Sep 14, 2016
10,918
WeHo
The problem isn't amazon. The problem is that what they are doing it legal. Make it so they have to pay their fair share of tax and they will.
 


Gazwag

Gazwag

5 millionth post poster
Mar 4, 2004
30,159
Bexhill-on-Sea
BNthree said:
The problem isn't amazon. The problem is that what they are doing it legal. Make it so they have to pay their fair share of tax and they will.
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Quite, you tell me of a self employed person in this county who would not expect his accountant to minimize their tax bill as much as possible - if its done legally of course.
 






R

Recidivist

Active member
Apr 28, 2019
287
Worthing
rippleman said:
I won't use Amazon and would encourage others to do likewise until they start paying their fair share of taxes on the billions of profits they make. It's shameful that our government continues to avoid introducing legislation to hammer the corporate tax dodgers.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately we live in a global age and introducing penal legislation in the UK just means that multinationals will re-arrange their affairs so they pay less in other jurisdictions.

This has been the case since multinationals were born. It’s just become a bit easier in a digital world.

The only approach that will work would be a coherent and coordinated approach across all the larger nations. Good luck with that!

Everyone gets very excited about corporation tax figures but forget about all the other taxes they pay/generate such as PAYE and NI.

I’m not suggesting that such corporations shouldn’t pay more across the board just that it’s part of their job to minimise taxes and this is the case with pretty much any company anywhere just that these behemoths are more visible and the numbers much bigger!

P.s. I think quoting Amazon’s profits as being in the billions is wholly inaccurate. In most years since inception they’ve actually made a loss as they’ve focussed on building market share.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,753
Back in Sussex
Springal said:
Should more be done to these large corporations to ensure they are paying their fair share?
Click to expand...

BNthree said:
The problem isn't amazon. The problem is that what they are doing it legal. Make it so they have to pay their fair share of tax and they will.
Click to expand...


How do you determine what a fair share is?

Companies in different sectors can make vastly different profits on similar revenue streams, even if all accountancy shenanigans are stripped away, so it's not possible to say "Your revenue was £Xbn, therefore you must pay at least £Y in corporation tax."

And whilst these international conglomerates are able to manipulate their presence in differing countries to record profit where it's most advantageous for themselves, it soon gets pretty murky when you try to definitively prove that is happening, as many companies will have sizeable legitimate payments to overseas entities.

Beyond that, some companies will make a genuine loss in a financial year, possibly over a period of several years for reasons other than slightly shady financial manipulation - would these companies be subject to corporation tax based purely on their revenue? Seems a bit unfair.

Finally, whilst you may seek to discount the impact a large entity such as Amazon brings to an economy in the form of employment and the contribution to the exchequer their employees make, governments do need to consider these positive contributions, and will compete with other governments to secure the presence of those companies as a result.
 






beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,313
Bozza said:
And whilst these international conglomerates are able to manipulate their presence in differing countries to record profit where it's most advantageous for themselves, it soon gets pretty murky when you try to definitively prove that is happening, as many companies will have sizeable legitimate payments to overseas entities.
Click to expand...

its usually rules for a different set of "fair" that lead to companies to move monies around legitimately.
 


Doonhamer7

Doonhamer7

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2016
1,284
And don’t forget if you have a private pension, it will probably hold Amazon shares so we are all nearly gaining from them. Big companies can always afford better accountants / tax advisors than the state - My step-sister used to work with hmrc- all her colleagues ‘retire’ to become tax consultants
 


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