Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

Ex Chief Scientific Advisor to Pfizer says second wave science is a scam



Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
I usually turn off when I read the word "mainstream". It started in conspiracy theory circles as a word to attack the press who supposedly are covering up "the truth".

Not going to discuss conspiracy theories today, but this... is just factually incorrect. Its been widely in use for more than a hundred years and in a wide array of subjects, most with no connection to conspiracy theories.
 


drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,008
Burgess Hill
Where have I kept banging on about Culture of fear? Go through every single one of my posts and you'll see I've only ever mentioned it once. Why? I only came across 'Culture of fear' today!

I believe the level of fear in our society has gone out of control with this 19th corona virus we've had, which is very likely to be playing a huge role in the very sharp rise in suicides right now.
It's as if fear is being portrayed as love.

That's good you don't have fear driving and it's good you're not pushing to ban all driving either. Yes there's dangers with it, but fear shouldn't prevent us from life. Seat belts are good but doesn't change the fact there's still tons of road deaths everyday. Life has to go on though as we all agree....

I respect your condition must make this corona virus more worrying but why weren't you this concerned with previous outbreaks? Assuming you live with other people, were you all wearing masks whenever anyone in your household /flat got some sort of disease then? I didn't see you shouting out about the need for masks until Covid19 popped up in all truth? Do you think this 'masks must be worn to prevent the spread of disease' stuff might be an influence of all the fear mongering going on right now more than a view you have always maintained?

I believe the reality of this whole debate actually comes down to faith, not knowledge. None of us have the right to really claim we are right and they are wrong. But using personal insults and mocking one's intelligence, using terms like conspiracy theorist, Tin foil hatters, nut jobs etc is the real danger. The Tin foil hatter mock was being targeted at people trying to raise awareness on the High profile peadophile rings going on let's not forget!

When so many people are committing suicide right now and they very well could be people who've had their lives destroyed over this lockdown, we need to think for everyone, not just people vulnerable to a corona virus.

Questioning the need for so much fear shouldn't be seen as a negative, but by the ones I can see in a state of fear, they clearly don't want any questioning whatsoever. This is where the term Conspiracy theory works unfortunately well for them.

You make reference to 'fear' in posts 25. 32. 34

Out of interest, as for suicides, have you got a link to stats? Just looking at the ONS figures for the first two quarters of this year. 1st qtr is similar to corresponding qtr in 2019 but the second qtr, which should be the first three months of lockdown is showing a drop of 500 which is about 40% down on corresponding qtr last year although that is with the caveat that the reduction may be due to delays in inquests during the lockdown.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...asets/deathscausedbysuicidebyquarterinengland
 


drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,008
Burgess Hill
Not going to discuss conspiracy theories today, but this... is just factually incorrect. Its been widely in use for more than a hundred years and in a wide array of subjects, most with no connection to conspiracy theories.

Sorry, but whilst the word mainstream has been used for a long time, it is in recent years that conspiracy theorist refer to MSM to suggest that mainstream media is in league with whomever to cover up the truth when in reality the are merely reporting on a basis the conspiracy theorist don't like.
 


Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
Sorry, but whilst the word mainstream has been used for a long time, it is in recent years that conspiracy theorist refer to MSM to suggest that mainstream media is in league with whomever to cover up the truth when in reality the are merely reporting on a basis the conspiracy theorist don't like.

True, "mainstream media" (rather than just mainstream) is quite often a word used by conspiracy theorists for the last 60 years or so.

Disagree with the second part, obviously. The media cover up a lot of things. A natural consequence of their tight relations to secret services like CIA and MI6.
 


Megazone

On his last warning
Jan 28, 2015
8,679
Northern Hemisphere.
You make reference to 'fear' in posts 25. 32. 34

Out of interest, as for suicides, have you got a link to stats? Just looking at the ONS figures for the first two quarters of this year. 1st qtr is similar to corresponding qtr in 2019 but the second qtr, which should be the first three months of lockdown is showing a drop of 500 which is about 40% down on corresponding qtr last year although that is with the caveat that the reduction may be due to delays in inquests during the lockdown.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...asets/deathscausedbysuicidebyquarterinengland

So what if I make reference to fear in whatever posts you've counted. You accused me of banging on about 'Culture of Fear' which I've only ever mentioned once and included the wiki link for it. Definitely a case of word twisting going on now to win a crap argument.

So suicide rates have dropped?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...p/01/male-suicide-rate-england-wales-covid-19
 




Fat Boy Fat

New member
Aug 21, 2020
1,077
So what if I make reference to fear in whatever posts you've counted. You accused me of banging on about 'Culture of Fear' which I've only ever mentioned once and included the wiki link for it. Definitely a case of word twisting going on now to win a crap argument.

So suicide rates have dropped?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...p/01/male-suicide-rate-england-wales-covid-19

I'm going to throw my two 'penneth in here and tough if you don't like it.

You are being deliberately obtuse - yes you only mentioned the phrase Culture of Fear with capitals once, but had in several posts derided people for their fear, with little or no understanding (or apparently wanting to understand their individual circumstances.

You then repeated the same lie, I believe 3 times, that suicide rates were going up, indicating due to the current situation. Like the previous poster I tried hard to find your evidence, but couldn't, you have then linked to info that showed suicide rates were at an all time rate, last year.

Clearly, like you, these unfortunate people had the power of foresight.
 
Last edited:


Megazone

On his last warning
Jan 28, 2015
8,679
Northern Hemisphere.
I'm going to throw my two 'penneth in here and tough if you don't like it.

You are being deliberately obtuse - yes you only mentioned the phrase Culture of Fear with capitals once, but had in several posts derided people for their fear, with little or no understanding (or apparently wanting to understand their individual circumstances.

You then repeated the same lie, I believe 3 times, that suicide rates were going up, indicating due to the current situation. Like the previous poster I tried hard to find your evidence, but couldn't, you have then linked to info that showed suicide rates were at an all time rate, last year.

Clearly, like you, these unfortunate people had the power of foresight.

The first link shows suicide rates have not dropped which was being claimed

Didn't Denise Welch also mention something about suicide rates going up by 20%?

This article is very very concerning and shows suicide rates are on the climb:

https://www.rollcall.com/2020/08/05...already-rising-suicide-rates-heightens-worry/

How you think this is lies is appalling. Suicide is very serious and effects so many people around the suicide victim as well. Playing down the concerns of this just proves this is all about point scoring for you.

PS This might help you to understand what Culture of fear is :https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cul...imate,the American sociologist Barry Glassner.
 
Last edited:


Fat Boy Fat

New member
Aug 21, 2020
1,077
Didn't Denise Welch also mention something about suicide rates going up by 20%?

This article is very very concerning:

https://www.rollcall.com/2020/08/05...already-rising-suicide-rates-heightens-worry/

PS This might help you to understand what Culture of fear is :https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cul...imate,the American sociologist Barry Glassner.

Why is it whenever people are called out on their lies and half truths they result to whataboutery, going off on a tangent to yet another one of their favourites...

Please don't post lies, in particular with regards to something as serious as suicide.
 




Megazone

On his last warning
Jan 28, 2015
8,679
Northern Hemisphere.
Why is it whenever people are called out on their lies and half truths they result to whataboutery, going off on a tangent to yet another one of their favourites...

Please don't post lies, in particular with regards to something as serious as suicide.

It's not lies. That's just you being a nasty piece of work again.

Oh I'd forgotten. You literally posted this last night on this thread:

As my parting words for this forum, I hope a member of your family doesn’t come into contact with the virus and you live to eat your words.

On that note, I bid you adieu...

What made you come back so quickly after your big fair well?
 


Fat Boy Fat

New member
Aug 21, 2020
1,077
It's not lies. That's just you being a nasty piece of work again.

Oh I'd forgotten. You literally posted this last night on this thread:



What made you come back so quickly after your big fair well?

Like Arnie, I came back, to challenge some of the stuff you and others are putting on here and once again, when challenged you turn things around as an attack on me.

The repeated suicide comment is an unsubstantiated "fact". The reference to last years figures classless deflection...
 


Megazone

On his last warning
Jan 28, 2015
8,679
Northern Hemisphere.
Like Arnie, I came back, to challenge some of the stuff you and others are putting on here and once again, when challenged you turn things around as an attack on me.

The repeated suicide comment is an unsubstantiated "fact". The reference to last years figures classless deflection...

You're obviously ignoring the 2nd link I put up about the sharp increase in suicides during this Covid19 pandemic so you can keep with you weird "lie" thing in relation to the suicide rates climbing.

Anyone who puts up a big fair well to the forum and then is back the next day still bin festing away is a clear and blatant bellend.

Keep going though mate. I'm clearly stuck in your head. I apologise for that.
 




Fat Boy Fat

New member
Aug 21, 2020
1,077
You're obviously ignoring the 2nd link I put up about the sharp increase in suicides during this Covid19 pandemic so you can keep with you weird "lie" thing in relation to the suicide rates climbing.

Anyone who puts up a big fair well to the forum and then is back the next day still bin festing away is a clear and blatant bellend.

Keep going though mate. I'm clearly stuck in your head. I apologise for that.

I have to admit when I make a mistake I am able to admit it. I mistakenly typed forum last night, when I meant to say I was leaving this thread, as you had already started to be abusive towards me.

As for the suicide "fact" as I previously mentioned, the figures and post you are linking to are for LAST YEAR and goes on to say "there was no guarantee Covid would lead to higher suicide rates".

You on 3 separate occasions wrote about the sharp increase in suicide rates appearing to link it to Covid, which it wasn't.

Anyway, as I said last night, and I will get it right this time, I bid this thread and you adieu...
 


Megazone

On his last warning
Jan 28, 2015
8,679
Northern Hemisphere.
As for the suicide "fact" as I previously mentioned, the figures and post you are linking to are for LAST YEAR and goes on to say "there was no guarantee Covid would lead to higher suicide rates".

You on 3 separate occasions wrote about the sharp increase in suicide rates appearing to link it to Covid, which it wasn't.

Show me where I've stated fact that the suicide rates were because of Covid19?

The link you're ignoring:

https://www.rollcall.com/2020/08/05...already-rising-suicide-rates-heightens-worry/
 


Megazone

On his last warning
Jan 28, 2015
8,679
Northern Hemisphere.
I have to admit when I make a mistake I am able to admit it. I mistakenly typed forum last night, when I meant to say I was leaving this thread, as you had already started to be abusive towards me.

You flounced off with a big goodbye to the forum, then came back to that same thread the fairwell was on with an attack towards me and now you're claiming you meant to say thread not forum on your big fairwell post last night.
It's just ridiculous. Either way you couldn't keep to your word.

Oh and what was that about being able to admit your mistakes again?
 






drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,008
Burgess Hill
Show me where I've stated fact that the suicide rates were because of Covid19?

The link you're ignoring:

https://www.rollcall.com/2020/08/05...already-rising-suicide-rates-heightens-worry/

You're unbelievable. You babble on suggesting everyone is supposedly in fear (whether you use the phrase culture or not). You start referring to the rising rate of suicides but fail to produce any evidence to substantiate that comment other than a link to the US which has bugger all to do with us!

When you replied to my post asking about a link, all you posted was a comment 'So suicide rates have dropped?' and a link to 2019 which as far as I'm aware is bugger all to do with any rise or fall during the 2nd and 3rd qtrs of 2020!

As for Denise Welch, I believe her comment was along the lines of 20+ suicides a day, not that it had gone up by 20%. Based on the ONS figures I posted a link to, in 2019 during the second qtr there were about 14 suicides a day. The statistics for the second qtr of 2020 are not complete for the reason I stated earlier which it is clear you didn't read (or comprehend). So how people can claim that the stats show rates have gone through the roof when there are no complete stats is beyond me.
 


e77

Well-known member
May 23, 2004
7,267
Worthing
You represent a lot of what I say very well.

Why get so upset by people in belief that we should have less fear with a corona virus outbreak?

Does fear become comfortable I wonder? (in fact I'll check that)

The only people living in fear are the emotional immature narcissist's like you who can't accept we are in the middle of a pandemic and we all need to make sacrifices for the common good. The rest of us are just getting on with it.

If you think for one minute that the population of this country are being brainwashed into offering the government a free pass on restricting liberty then you really don't understand the British people. We don't need the likes of David Icke, Piers Corbyn and Chico to take a philosophical lead on the temporary restriction on some freedoms and the timing of them being returned. When the time is right they will be handed back by the government or they won't be the government for much longer.

Democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
 


Megazone

On his last warning
Jan 28, 2015
8,679
Northern Hemisphere.
You're unbelievable. You babble on suggesting everyone is supposedly in fear (whether you use the phrase culture or not). You start referring to the rising rate of suicides but fail to produce any evidence to substantiate that comment other than a link to the US which has bugger all to do with us!

When you replied to my post asking about a link, all you posted was a comment 'So suicide rates have dropped?' and a link to 2019 which as far as I'm aware is bugger all to do with any rise or fall during the 2nd and 3rd qtrs of 2020!

As for Denise Welch, I believe her comment was along the lines of 20+ suicides a day, not that it had gone up by 20%. Based on the ONS figures I posted a link to, in 2019 during the second qtr there were about 14 suicides a day. The statistics for the second qtr of 2020 are not complete for the reason I stated earlier which it is clear you didn't read (or comprehend). So how people can claim that the stats show rates have gone through the roof when there are no complete stats is beyond me.

What on earth?!

You said suicide rates were dropping in this country. So I looked it up and found a Guardian article from earlier this month suggesting its not.
I've never once talked about the suicide rise being specifically to this country and if I have show me and I'll admit my error. Regardless, how on earth does the frightening suicide rates since this pandemic has begun in the USA mean absolute nothing to you and the people of this country? You do know they're going through what we are too? Whatever side of the pond you're on shouldn't mean we're not all in this together. Funny how this is a global pandemic unless you're trying to win an argument...

In relation to what I mentioned with the Denise Welch comment, I'll accept I got that wrong but look back at my post and it's clear I mention that point showing no absolute certainty, but nonetheless if its 20+ suicides a day going on right now, how on earth are you playing that down? Bloody hell!


The 'Culture of fear' thing is getting ridiculous now. How many more times do you need to be told 'Culture of fear' and the word 'fear' are not the same thing? You accused me of banging on about 'Culture of fear' so I replied telling you I'd only heard of it today and only mentioned it once, and now you're still trying to win that argument by claiming the use of the word 'fear' is the same thing as 'Cultue of fear'. WTF?
Also, read back on when I used Culture of fear and you'll see I mentioned with it "maybe it is? Maybe it isn't?" but in your words I was banging on about it remember?

I get the impression you're offended by my use of the word fear the most, but yet everytime there's information that suggests we might not need to fear as much, people like yourself then get very angry and try to shut down that info as quick and as offensively as you can. It's as if you're trapped in fear but yet are trying so hard to give off a persona of being fearless. But go ahead keep babbling on and word twisting all you can. Fear is the obvious answer.
 




Megazone

On his last warning
Jan 28, 2015
8,679
Northern Hemisphere.
The only people living in fear are the emotional immature narcissist's like you who can't accept we are in the middle of a pandemic and we all need to make sacrifices for the common good. The rest of us are just getting on with it.

If you think for one minute that the population of this country are being brainwashed into offering the government a free pass on restricting liberty then you really don't understand the British people. We don't need the likes of David Icke, Piers Corbyn and Chico to take a philosophical lead on the temporary restriction on some freedoms and the timing of them being returned. When the time is right they will be handed back by the government or they won't be the government for much longer.

Democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

You should read up on Narcissistic projection, Narcissistic character assignation and Narcissistic mobbing.

It's all in your post.

We blah blah blah is all in your head. You can only truly speak for yourself I'm afraid. Same goes with this view that someone questioning the regulations of this lockdown is a follower of David Icke. Its like me accusing you of claiming Boris Johnson is the answer to all our problems and everything he says should be treated as gospel.
 


drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,008
Burgess Hill
What on earth?!

You said suicide rates were dropping in this country. So I looked it up and found a Guardian article from earlier this month suggesting its not.
I've never once talked about the suicide rise being specifically to this country and if I have show me and I'll admit my error. Regardless, how on earth does the frightening suicide rates since this pandemic has begun in the USA mean absolute nothing to you and the people of this country? You do know they're going through what we are too? Whatever side of the pond you're on shouldn't mean we're not all in this together. Funny how this is a global pandemic unless you're trying to win an argument...

In relation to what I mentioned with the Denise Welch comment, I'll accept I got that wrong but look back at my post and it's clear I mention that point showing no absolute certainty, but nonetheless if its 20+ suicides a day going on right now, how on earth are you playing that down? Bloody hell! I pointed out what she said, I didn't claim what she said is true. She has provided no substantiation for what she said.


The 'Culture of fear' thing is getting ridiculous now. How many more times do you need to be told 'Culture of fear' and the word 'fear' are not the same thing? You accused me of banging on about 'Culture of fear' so I replied telling you I'd only heard of it today and only mentioned it once, and now you're still trying to win that argument by claiming the use of the word 'fear' is the same thing as 'Cultue of fear'. WTF?
Also, read back on when I used Culture of fear and you'll see I mentioned with it "maybe it is? Maybe it isn't?" but in your words I was banging on about it remember?

I get the impression you're offended by my use of the word fear the most, but yet everytime there's information that suggests we might not need to fear as much, people like yourself then get very angry and try to shut down that info as quick and as offensively as you can. It's as if you're trapped in fear but yet are trying so hard to give off a persona of being fearless. But go ahead keep babbling on and word twisting all you can. Fear is the obvious answer.

Dumb gets dumber!!!!

Read my post in full and tell me where I have claimed suicide rates have officially dropped? I was countering your assertion they had gone up because you posted no validation of that for this country. I posted links to official figures which show 500 less than last year but gave the official reason why those figures might not be complete which you failed to comprehend!!!

And for the record, we are not going through what the US is going through. Johnson and his mob have made a mess of their handling of this pandemic but they are streets ahead of the orange idiot across the pond. We're about 1/5 of the size of the states yet they currently have 14k in critical care against our 78. They have 20k cases per million pop. whereas we only have 5k. The only area where the comparison is close is in deaths. However, we were a long way ahead of them but now they are fast approaching 200k deaths and will probably go a lot further than that.
 



Paying the bills

Latest Discussions

Paying the bills

Paying the bills

Paying the bills

Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports


Top
Link Here