[News] US Election 2020

Tyrone Biggums · Sep 10, 2020

highflyer said:
Somewhat to my surprise I sort of agree with you, at least up to a point.

The left have won the economic argument. Or more accurately, the right have lost it. People no longer widely believe in free market, trickle-down ideologies because they are seeing for themselves that it is bullsh*t. They know it isn't working for them, and they are increasingly angry about levels of inequality and the way that the economic elite and big corporations behave. Trump managed to tap into that for the last election, pretending to be anti-elitist and getting away with it. That mask has slipped a bit since then.

So Trump's (like Cummings') best hope is to shift the battleground to a culture war and hope that if he can build enough fear, and then push a 'law and order' agenda his base will go with him.

I personally have absolute sympathy with the aims of BLM, and understand the anger and frustration it represents. Longer term you cannot ignore the rise of a very nasty strand of the far right in the US. But politically, right now, they are playing into Trumps hands (and Cumming's hands in the UK). Trump is deliberately stirring and people are reacting exactly as he hoped.. Hard headed tactics would be to fight the election on the grounds of competence in dealing with the pandemic + economics and bring the discussion on racism back to the mainstream after November.

I think that is where the MSM paints a false picture of what America thinks. You don't hear about what people in Montana or Wyoming think. CNN report for NY, LA etc

This is why so much of the reporting on elections ends up wrong.

Right now it's become an election on crime and law enforcement.

You might be right that the left highlighted economic issues but anything they may have gained has been lost now. People now associate it with anarchy, violence, criminal activity and shit that turns people off supporting them. And by people I mean those who are considered independent or don't vote. If they were trying to convince those types of people to vote Democrat, they have failed miserably.

The irony is the biggest and richest elites in the US in 2020 are balls deep in the Democrat Party.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Sep 10, 2020

Lenny Rider said:
Yet why does this country seem to imitate so much from the US?

I'm almost getting a little bit tired of everyone taking the knee before a game now, they even did at Soccer Aid.

They've made their point, can we now just move on and concentrate on issues we have in this country?

Well, it is certainly the case that there is no racism at all in England, but we should still take the knee in solidarity with our American cousins, surely?

Harry Wilson's tackle · Sep 10, 2020

Lenny Rider said:
Watched it briefly LL, I'm not saying that's racism sorted, clearly its not, but there are far more effective ways of combatting it.

Just asking post Tommie Smith and his fellow athlete doing the Black Power salute in Mexico in 1968, if every US gold winning black athlete had done the same thing on the Olympic podium for the last 52 years, would we 1) Still be talking about Tommie Smith?
2) Would things have been altered that drastically?

I find that comment hard to fathom. There are many ways to attempt to combat racism, with laws being an important part of this, but racism has not been defeated so you cannot say that any one method is better than any other.

Taking the knee reminds people of the issue. The fact that it seems to irritate certain people is, I suspect, a good and important thing.

wellquickwoody · Sep 10, 2020

Neither my wife or I have ever set foot in the US, and have no intention of ever doing so.

Whilst on holiday with a friend who owns a holiday home in Florida, we were repeatedly advised that if we tried it, we would like it.

After our holiday we watched in sadness as a number of black people lost their lives to Police aggression, and cities were looted and burned. We saw free enclaves like Portland, listened to the racist commentary of Donald Trump. While here and the UK queued for toilet rolls at the start of the pandemic, America queued for guns. Then you factor in that Americans are probably stupid enough to return Trump to power. If you banned guns in the US tomorrow, it would still have a gun problem in 200 years time.

So, would I take my friends advice? No bloody way.

NooBHA · Sep 10, 2020

highflyer said:
Somewhat to my surprise I sort of agree with you, at least up to a point.

The left have won the economic argument. Or more accurately, the right have lost it. People no longer widely believe in free market, trickle-down ideologies because they are seeing for themselves that it is bullsh*t. They know it isn't working for them, and they are increasingly angry about levels of inequality and the way that the economic elite and big corporations behave. Trump managed to tap into that for the last election, pretending to be anti-elitist and getting away with it. That mask has slipped a bit since then.

So Trump's (like Cummings') best hope is to shift the battleground to a culture war and hope that if he can build enough fear, and then push a 'law and order' agenda his base will go with him.

I personally have absolute sympathy with the aims of BLM, and understand the anger and frustration it represents. Longer term you cannot ignore the rise of a very nasty strand of the far right in the US. But politically, right now, they are playing into Trumps hands (and Cumming's hands in the UK). Trump is deliberately stirring and people are reacting exactly as he hoped.. Hard headed tactics would be to fight the election on the grounds of competence in dealing with the pandemic + economics and bring the discussion on racism back to the mainstream after November.

Normally I would never agree with such a statement because Society has shelved this from the Agenda for too long; however, in this instance I actually agree with you. The need to remove Trump in the November Election if far greater because if he gets Elected again. It will be shelved for another 4 years

Leekbrookgull · Sep 10, 2020

Trump,shoe in. Like it or not.

Dick Swiveller · Sep 10, 2020

Leekbrookgull said:
Trump,shoe in.

In the rectum, preferably.

Baker lite · Sep 10, 2020

NooBHA said:
Yes it absolutely makes a difference how you live and work

We have a Leader here in the UK who is mirroring the Actions of Trump - We saw that by the way that he stood by Dominic Cummings and rode ''rough shod'' over Public Opinion'' and Holding Ministers and Public Officers Accountable for their Actions. The same is happening with the threats to virtually tear up Pre-Agreed deals over Northern Ireland and Trade during Brexit.

If Donald Trump wins and his style of Politics is seen as a ''go ahead'' by Voters in the US that you can do what you want and that people are too stupid to do anything about it - Then it will be virtually guaranteed that Boris Johnson will see that as a Mandate that he can do whatever he wants and and never be held accountable for his actions. We will get even more of the same in this Country.

So this Election coming up in the US matters more than any other Election in history - Dismiss it at your Peril.

No...it really has no effect on Me or the people I care about whatsoever, zilch,nada,**** all.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Harry Wilson's tackle · Sep 10, 2020

Leekbrookgull said:
Trump,shoe in. Like it or not.

I agree.

And it's 'not' :shrug:

Shooting Star · Sep 10, 2020

NooBHA said:
Yes it absolutely makes a difference how you live and work

We have a Leader here in the UK who is mirroring the Actions of Trump - We saw that by the way that he stood by Dominic Cummings and rode ''rough shod'' over Public Opinion'' and Holding Ministers and Public Officers Accountable for their Actions. The same is happening with the threats to virtually tear up Pre-Agreed deals over Northern Ireland and Trade during Brexit.

If Donald Trump wins and his style of Politics is seen as a ''go ahead'' by Voters in the US that you can do what you want and that people are too stupid to do anything about it - Then it will be virtually guaranteed that Boris Johnson will see that as a Mandate that he can do whatever he wants and and never be held accountable for his actions. We will get even more of the same in this Country.

So this Election coming up in the US matters more than any other Election in history - Dismiss it at your Peril.

I think making superlative statements like this is perhaps unwise and numbs us to elections and moments in history that are indeed consequential. In terms of US history, there have been numerous elections more important than this one, namely the election of 1860 which directly triggered the American Civil War and would see the end of the institution of slavery. Elections during the 1950s and 1960s arguably had plenty more on the table, and if we want to look at historically poignant elections, 2008 (chance to elect first black US President) and 2016 (chance to elect either first female President OR wildcard such as Trump) were far more weighty than this one.

Please don't mistake me: I agree with you that this one is important, and with the recent wave of protests over racial issues there are very important matters which either Trump or Biden will have to deal with. However, these issues have been prominent since Obama's second term and as nice as Joe Biden is, he isn't exactly the messiah. I'd suggest that whoever wins, race issues will still continue as there is no instant solution to them as there was with slavery and segregation. And internationally, if anything Trump has led the USA further away from any international conflicts so Godwilling no wars will be on the cards in the next four years, whoever is in the White House.

I also think comparing Boris to Trump is a little lazy as whatever you think of them both, Boris is far more diplomatic, self-restrained and well, a politician, than Donald. But I'm probably fighting a losing battle if you dislike Boris!

The Merry Prankster · Sep 10, 2020

Lenny Rider said:
Watched it briefly LL, I'm not saying that's racism sorted, clearly its not, but there are far more effective ways of combatting it.

Just asking post Tommie Smith and his fellow athlete doing the Black Power salute in Mexico in 1968, if every US gold winning black athlete had done the same thing on the Olympic podium for the last 52 years, would we 1) Still be talking about Tommie Smith?
2) Would things have been altered that drastically?

What are these "far more effective ways" that seem to have been totally ineffective so far.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Sep 11, 2020

Plooks said:
I find it really hard to work out how it can annoy people. Unless, they are against the message of ending racism!?

My comment was poignant and pointed. I'm quite subtle when I put my tiny mind to it :wink:

Swansman · Sep 11, 2020

Tyrone Biggums said:
This is an election of identity politics. It's who can point out best the absurdity of their opposition.

This is what plays into Trumps hands and gives him a chance of being re-elected when he should have none.

A lot of Americans won't want their cities to turn into Portland or Seattle and the Democrats woeful response to all the violence and hate towards the Police will scare the shit out of a lot of people.

The left are wining the absurdity stakes in a time when they just needed to act normal to trounce Trump.

This is true.

People who dont have to deal with the police always love or at least trust the police. Its how people are programmed. People know that the police protect the power and the middle class love it, no matter who is in power and no matter how many times this system backlashed all over the world.

Hillsborough or Portland, the majority will always trust the authorities and consider the upset people fighting for justice as hooligans.

Tyrone Biggums · Sep 11, 2020

Swansman said:
This is true.

People who dont have to deal with the police always love or at least trust the police. Its how people are programmed. People know that the police protect the power and the middle class love it, no matter who is in power and no matter how many times this system backlashed all over the world.

Hillsborough or Portland, the majority will always trust the authorities and consider the upset people fighting for justice as hooligans.

This is where a great disservice is done to the black community. A recent Gallop poll showed a higher % of blacks wanted more Police and better funded Police in their neighbourhoods than the defund or get rid of Police crowd. Follow the MSN narrative and you'd think black people were mostly in the latter group.

https://news.yahoo.com/poll-most-black-americans-want-170411177.html

This video highlights this false narrative perfectly. The same people doing most of the rioting and looting are represented by the white liberals in this video.

Tyrone Biggums · Sep 19, 2020

The Democrats need to change their name, they hate Democracy.

Juan Albion · Sep 19, 2020

Tyrone Biggums said:
The Democrats need to change their name, they hate Democracy.

Yeah, and the Republicans should go back to their old name, the Confederates.

Tyrone Biggums · Sep 19, 2020

Juan Albion said:
Yeah, and the Republicans should go back to their old name, the Confederates.

Umm the Confederates were the Democrat Party.

#history

Not that that has anything to do with what was posted. Democrats are crying about voter suppression and yet here they are in the open suppressing voters.

Juan Albion · Sep 19, 2020

Tyrone Biggums said:
Umm the Confederates were the Democrat Party.

#history

Not that that has anything to do with what was posted. Democrats are crying about voter suppression and yet here they are in the open suppressing voters.

With WERE being the operative word. The two parties have completely swapped values, everyone knows that. And just take a look at where the red states are and try telling me they don't reflect the Confederacy.

As for voter suppression, everyone also knows that the Republicans have been open about their attempts to suppress votes at every opportunity.

Tyrone Biggums · Sep 19, 2020

Juan Albion said:
With WERE being the operative word. The two parties have completely swapped values, everyone knows that. And just take a look at where the red states are and try telling me they don't reflect the Confederacy.

As for voter suppression, everyone also knows that the Republicans have been open about their attempts to suppress votes at every opportunity.

Well I can tell you they don't reflect the Confederacy.

Kansas, Ohio, Iowa, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana were all Union States all won by the Republicans in 2016 however.

So if everyone knows voter suppression exists and is bad then why are the Democrats saying one thing and doing another?

If it's so problematic to them why are they doing it themselves?

Juan Albion · Sep 19, 2020

Tyrone Biggums said:
Well I can tell you they don't reflect the Confederacy.

Kansas, Ohio, Iowa, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana were all Union States all won by the Republicans in 2016 however.

So if everyone knows voter suppression exists and is bad then why are the Democrats saying one thing and doing another?

If it's so problematic to them why are they doing it themselves?

Of course they won other states in 2016, no-one said they didn't. BUT. . .

Confederate states: Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina and Virginia. You know very well that these are all red states, apart from three that are purple.

You will always be able to find small instances of politicians being hypocrites because they all are, it's in their nature. But you have to look at the big picture, which is that it is the Republicans who are trying to win the election by voter suppression - especially minority voters.

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