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Lineker Lodge



pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
The Wizard said:
I have asked this a few times, but can someone enlighten me as I’m genuinely interested, what is the answer to the issue?

Allow everyone? Allow based on certain things? Disallow all? Only allow certain nations? Genuinely interested, as I see a lot of people are expressing thoughts as to the fact that we as a country should be more welcoming, I would like to know, usual suspects and unsympathetic entitled tw*ts aside, I genuinely can’t answer how the issue can be solved in a way that is right.
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The long term issue of mass migration (everywhere not just the UK) is fundamentally that there are too many people.

The immediate issue of people crossing the channel in deathtrap dinghies is one of curtailing people smugglers operating at French borders. I am surprised the French authorities and by extension the EU on ts external border have lost control in this way.
These people smugglers gangs are vermin, they brutalise and rape migrants and charge them 1000`s each to get in deathtrap dinghies. When the weather worsens we are going to have more than one disaster with bodies washing up on beaches unless it is stopped.

The UK should play its part with refugees, but our priority should be bringing in the most vulnerable, those that need help the most, these are people that are already processed as refugees in UNHCR camps who have seen unspeakable horrors and need professional help, have suffered torture and rape, or need medical help. These people have nothing, which is why they are in a camp and prop not fit or healthy enough to journey across Europe or have the finances to pay smugglers 1000`s.
We also have a duty not to overwhelm existing services here, like counselling, housing or child services by bringing in too many refugees from camps at once.
 




M

Mo Gosfield

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2010
6,284
pastafarian said:
The long term issue of mass migration (everywhere not just the UK) is fundamentally that there are too many people.

The immediate issue of people crossing the channel in deathtrap dinghies is one of curtailing people smugglers operating at French borders. I am surprised the French authorities and by extension the EU on ts external border have lost control in this way.
These people smugglers gangs are vermin, they brutalise and rape migrants and charge them 1000`s each to get in deathtrap dinghies. When the weather worsens we are going to have more than one disaster with bodies washing up on beaches unless it is stopped.

The UK should play its part with refugees, but our priority should be bringing in the most vulnerable, those that need help the most, these are people that are already processed as refugees in UNHCR camps who have seen unspeakable horrors and need professional help, have suffered torture and rape, or need medical help. These people have nothing, which is why they are in a camp and prop not fit or healthy enough to journey across Europe or have the finances to pay smugglers 1000`s.
We also have a duty not to overwhelm existing services here, like counselling, housing or child services by bringing in too many refugees from camps at once.
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There has to be a recognition that we have to have an optimum population level, that should be roughly balanced out between migration and immigration. The balance has shifted dramatically in the last 20+ years when our population has increased by about the size of London. Yes....we have dropped another London into the UK. The majority of immigrants gravitate to areas that offer the most work, which obviously means London, the S.E and major towns and cities.
What that optimum figure should be is not easy to estimate but one thing for sure is that we are heading for 70m in the next 20 years if we do nothing. The responsibility of any government is to try and help maintain a decent living standard and quality of lifestyle for its people. Every extra million in population growth makes that harder to carry out. At this worrying time, with the prospect of 3-4m people unemployed in the next 12months, everything will be stretched to breaking point. We are struggling now to build enough houses. Our road system cannot cope. In the last 20 years we have seen the number of cars on our roads increase by almost 6m ( 33m in total ) with the S.E experiencing the greatest motor vehicle density of any UK region ( over 5m cars ) A country needs to move goods and services along its arterial routes and its population needs to commute to work, without too much delay. We need to have schools with manageable class sizes. We need to have surgeries, with manageable waiting lists. We need to have enough capacity in our hospitals. We need to have a police force that can act on all areas of criminal activity rather than selective areas because of overload. We do not want overflowing prisons and we do not want an ever burgeoning public sector, draining resource to cope with the demands of a population growing too fast for its systems.
The matter has not been addressed because it is deemed too politically sensitive. So the welfare and quality of life of its citizens is allowed to gradually diminish, week by week, month by month and year by year. Slowly but surely. There are many who see no problem.The more the merrier. ' My lifestyle is great so where is the problem ? ' They argue that it is to our benefit to have a rapidly increasing population on a relatively small island with finite resources. The argument was always that
our economy needed the extra numbers. Well lets put that to the test over the next 12 months, when 500 people are applying for one job. There will be a stampede toward the likes of Tesco and Amazon for low grade, low paid work but beyond that there will be huge pressures.
If pressed, I would suggest that we are starting to go past our optimum population figure ( about 63 - 65m ) At this figure and with a healthy economy and decent investment, our services can just about cope. Higher than this and all or systems will, progressively, underperform.
 




Randy McNob

Randy McNob

Now go home and get your f#cking Shinebox
Jun 13, 2020
4,463
I guess it would be difficult to admit you've been royally had by the media in the same way Brexiters would rather kid themselves it's still a good idea than admit the skipfire reality
 


Pretty pink fairy

Pretty pink fairy

Banned
Jan 30, 2008
31,981
Randy McNob said:
I guess it would be difficult to admit you've been royally had by the media in the same way Brexiters would rather kid themselves it's still a good idea than admit the skipfire reality
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That tired ideal is why we left the EU , oh well never take the silent majority for granted, you'll never learn will you :lolol:
Regards
DF
 




Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,516
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
A1X said:
Can you cite some evidence for that statement, please?
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It’s all about perception. An interesting experiment was done in Dewsbury in West Yorkshire. I lived there for six years in the 70s. Asian people meeting British people and filling in questionnaires. The British thought the population split in that town, which has had a significant Asian population for decades, was 50/50.
The reality is 6% Asian and 94% British.

Some facts, real facts, about migrants, refugees etc etc

https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/co...FmrXpV48G4wEUndp_uGeo2QEyxcGHQxYaAklmEALw_wcB
 


A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,869
Deepest, darkest Sussex
Thunder Bolt said:
It’s all about perception. An interesting experiment was done in Dewsbury in West Yorkshire. I lived there for six years in the 70s. Asian people meeting British people and filling in questionnaires. The British thought the population split in that town, which has had a significant Asian population for decades, was 50/50.
The reality is 6% Asian and 94% British.

Some facts, real facts, about migrants, refugees etc etc

https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/co...FmrXpV48G4wEUndp_uGeo2QEyxcGHQxYaAklmEALw_wcB
Click to expand...

It's a few years old now but I'm always reminded of this when this sort of thing comes up

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...t-nearly-everything-survey-shows-8697821.html
 


Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,516
Beside the seaside, beside the sea




M

Mo Gosfield

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2010
6,284
Thunder Bolt said:
It’s all about perception. An interesting experiment was done in Dewsbury in West Yorkshire. I lived there for six years in the 70s. Asian people meeting British people and filling in questionnaires. The British thought the population split in that town, which has had a significant Asian population for decades, was 50/50.
The reality is 6% Asian and 94% British.

Some facts, real facts, about migrants, refugees etc etc


Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
In truth, I don't give a toss what ethnic splits we have in this country. I have an unwavering belief that we have an optimum population level in this small island and beyond that, our ability to maintain certain qualities of life begins to diminish. We are ham-strung by our geography. We can't spread out fairly evenly across the country. There are too many natural breaks and barriers. Over 90% of the UK is undeveloped and will remain that way for those reasons. We are, however, experiencing a metropolitan sprawl that is starting to eat into some of those natural barriers and erode divisions between individual towns. Estates are being built that resemble mini towns. We can't expand our road system enough to cope with the ever increasing number of vehicles. Resources are not limitless in this country ( despite some people clearly pretending that they are )
We are at our lifestyle crossroads right now. If we continue to allow our numbers to rise unchecked, our children and grand-children will find that ease of travel ,availability of services and quality of life is not what we experienced. We owe it to them to be honest about our capabilities as a country.
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Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,516
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Mo Gosfield said:
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
In truth, I don't give a toss what ethnic splits we have in this country. I have an unwavering belief that we have an optimum population level in this small island and beyond that, our ability to maintain certain qualities of life begins to diminish. We are ham-strung by our geography. We can't spread out fairly evenly across the country. There are too many natural breaks and barriers. Over 90% of the UK is undeveloped and will remain that way for those reasons. We are, however, experiencing a metropolitan sprawl that is starting to eat into some of those natural barriers and erode divisions between individual towns. Estates are being built that resemble mini towns. We can't expand our road system enough to cope with the ever increasing number of vehicles. Resources are not limitless in this country ( despite some people clearly pretending that they are )
We are at our lifestyle crossroads right now. If we continue to allow our numbers to rise unchecked, our children and grand-children will find that ease of travel ,availability of services and quality of life is not what we experienced. We owe it to them to be honest about our capabilities as a country.
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My children and grandchildren are happy with a multi cultural society, and have friends that reflect that. I'm proud of them.
The birth rate is falling, so numbers will not rise unchecked.
26% of the doctors in the NHS are immigrants and long may that continue.
 


L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
Acker79 said:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/press-re...ing-violence-against-people-helping-refugees/
French authorities have harassed, intimidated and even violently assaulted people offering humanitarian aid and other support to migrants, asylum seekers and refugees in northern France in a deliberate attempt to curtail acts of solidarity, a new report by Amnesty International has found.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/01/french-police-step-up-calais-refugee-evictions
French police have stepped up attempts to drive out refugees from Calais, with camp evictions in the area running at a record 20 clearances a week, according to comprehensive new analysis. ... The report, to be released on Wednesday, also documents alleged levels of violence and intimidation by French police against refugees with almost 1,000 complaints collated by researchers during the 12 months to November.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/17/paris-uk-migrants-attacks-abuse-study
Hundreds of refugees living rough in Paris, many of whom hoped to reach the UK, claim they have been subject to abuse from French citizens, including physical attacks and sexual violence, according to new research. From a sample of almost 300 refugees – around 10% of the 2,950 migrants sleeping rough in the French capital – it emerged that 42% of respondents did not feel safe.

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-re...bused-choked-and-threatened-police-new-report
Human rights defenders say abuse, intimidation and threats of arrest by French authorities have become “part and parcel of their daily work”. 72 recorded instances of police abuse and harassment against volunteers – with real number likely to be much higher. One volunteer tells Amnesty she was violently pushed to the ground and choked by police

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/f...tizens-crimes-solidarity-170122064151841.html
Paris, France - Trying to ward off the overnight cold with a blanket donated by volunteers, Muktar Ali was sleeping rough in the north of Paris when at about 4:30am, the police returned. He and several other Eritreans say they were pushed, prodded and kicked by police clearing the area. "Police took everything I had - clothes, shoes, blanket - and threw it all away," said Ali, 33, who had fled forced conscription in Eritrea and was held captive by rebels in Libya before crossing the Mediterranean Sea to Europe. Now, he's among many refugees living on the streets of Paris, who have been subjected to displacement, detention and deportations.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ct-report-research-beating-cold-a7575376.html
Refugees sleeping on the streets in freezing conditions in Paris are having their blankets and sleeping bags stolen by police while being “violently” forced to move on, a report has found. Research exclusively published by The Independent shows that men, women and children are being beaten and tear gassed by officers in the French capital, despite government pledges to shelter vulnerable people.
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For context it may be helpful to add that France actually receives far more asylum applications than the UK. Leading EU recipients last year were Germany (111,000), France (87,100), Spain (80,000), Greece (47,000) the UK (32,000) and Italy (25,000).

I believe that the UK figure was less than half that in the early years of the present century.






https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/21810/seeking-asylum-in-europe-in-2019-facts-and-figures
 




Is it PotG?

Is it PotG?

Thrifty non-licker
Feb 20, 2017
23,367
Sussex by the Sea
Lincoln Imp said:
For context it may be helpful to add that France actually receives far more asylum applications than the UK. Leading EU recipients last year were Germany (111,000), France (87,100), Spain (80,000), Greece (47,000) the UK (32,000) and Italy (25,000).

I believe that the UK figure was less than half that in the early years of the present century.






https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/21810/seeking-asylum-in-europe-in-2019-facts-and-figures
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Less official applications probably accounts for the daily scenes similar to the closing scenes of 'We Are the Champions' in The Channel.
 


L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
Is it PotG? said:
Less official applications probably accounts for the daily scenes similar to the closing scenes of 'We Are the Champions' in The Channel.
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Yes, some of the occupants of the scattering of dinghies crossing the channel (which Mr Farage likes to characterise as an 'invasion') may well flee before being picked up. I'd imagine though that it is far far harder to smuggle yourself into Britain than into France or Germany.
 


Pretty pink fairy

Pretty pink fairy

Banned
Jan 30, 2008
31,981
British do gooders in France are part of the problem, maybe getting a job helping the UK out would be more beneficial
Regards
DF
 




Pretty pink fairy

Pretty pink fairy

Banned
Jan 30, 2008
31,981
Lincoln Imp said:
Yes, some of the occupants of the scattering of dinghies crossing the channel (which Mr Farage likes to characterise as an 'invasion') may well flee before being picked up. I'd imagine though that it is far far harder to smuggle yourself into Britain than into France or Germany.
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Nothing like sweeping it under the carpet eh
Regards
DF
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
50,156
Faversham
Pretty pink fairy said:
British do gooders in France are part of the problem, maybe getting a job helping the UK out would be more beneficial
Regards
DF
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Intriguing point. Would you mind naming these people? Presumably they are incredibly influential and well paid. If so, I would agree with you. A terrible nuisance.

If they are a few happy clappy volunteers, though, I wouldn't start worrying about them as a problem. No more a threat to society than the donkey sanctuary activists. To me a problem is something real, not just made up stuff :thumbsup:
 








Pretty pink fairy

Pretty pink fairy

Banned
Jan 30, 2008
31,981
Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Intriguing point. Would you mind naming these people? Presumably they are incredibly influential and well paid. If so, I would agree with you. A terrible nuisance.

If they are a few happy clappy volunteers, though, I wouldn't start worrying about them as a problem. No more a threat to society than the donkey sanctuary activists. To me a problem is something real, not just made up stuff :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...er-tracked-drone-Iraqi-36-filmed-eye-sky.html what's your take on this then H
regards
DF
 




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