Shut up For The Sake of Diversity

symyjym · Oct 5, 2020

Dr Bandler said:
You have me wrong. I was referring to the general hysterical obsession with racism, not with grooming and current abuse. I am well aware of the grooming that goes on, including here in Sussex. It is very real and horrific.

Well if this is what you meant, I cannot see how it is even close to the meaning of your comment.

As for grooming going on in Sussex I would like to know more, and have you reported this information?

The Clamp · Oct 5, 2020

Baldseagull said:
My view is nothing like victim blaming, what I am saying is that you can remove all Pakistani men from the UK, and girls like these will still be at risk from other predatory men because the care system is shit and they are judged to be not worth the effort of safeguarding by Police and Social services, that to me is a bigger concern than which bunch of sickos is taking advantage of the situation.
You have taken the Police Officers word at face value and not put it in context, I say that the attitude of doing nothing about it for the sake of race relations would not apply if the victims were from middle class families, or Police Officers families, or from the Royal family. The problem is that no one gave enough of a shit about these girls to stop it, the abusers saw them as just poor white trash that no one cared about, and so did the people who should have been protecting them, and didn't. I would argue that the Police Officer quoted found it easier to blame racial sensitivity for a lack of action than to say "actually, we just didn't think these girls mattered much"

My kids have Pakistani friends, I promise you, there is not a universal belief amongst Pakistani's that everyone else is a filthy dog, though I have no doubt there are Pakistani racists every bit as hateful and backwards as their white British racist counterparts, who do have those beliefs.

I ducked out of this thread because I seem to antagonise a couple of posters and didn’t want to ruin an important thread. But I wanted to pop back on to say you have nailed it.
A fair amount of the women I work with have experienced or are experiencing exploitation, transactional relationships and coercion and your post if correct, in my experience.
In short, in my experience you’re right and you said it better than I could.
Good man.

And yes, grooming goes on in Sussex and police are very aware of it and act on it.

symyjym · Oct 5, 2020

Baldseagull said:
My view is nothing like victim blaming, what I am saying is that you can remove all Pakistani men from the UK, and girls like these will still be at risk from other predatory men because the care system is shit and they are judged to be not worth the effort of safeguarding by Police and Social services, that to me is a bigger concern than which bunch of sickos is taking advantage of the situation.
You have taken the Police Officers word at face value and not put it in context, I say that the attitude of doing nothing about it for the sake of race relations would not apply if the victims were from middle class families, or Police Officers families, or from the Royal family. The problem is that no one gave enough of a shit about these girls to stop it, the abusers saw them as just poor white trash that no one cared about, and so did the people who should have been protecting them, and didn't. I would argue that the Police Officer quoted found it easier to blame racial sensitivity for a lack of action than to say "actually, we just didn't think these girls mattered much"

My kids have Pakistani friends, I promise you, there is not a universal belief amongst Pakistani's that everyone else is a filthy dog, though I have no doubt there are Pakistani racists every bit as hateful and backwards as their white British racist counterparts, who do have those beliefs.

You are still so very wrong and I mentioned nothing about Pakistanis being the primary issue or even made a blanket statement.

I very much doubt that your children's friends have taken much notice of the Islamic scripture, not many Muslims do, and they are often better than their belief system.

The ones who commit this crime will use the authentic classical sources to justify sexual slavery and the abuse of the girls just like the Yazidis being the victims of ISIS going strictly by the book.

The face value I took was of the judge who has been going through these cases in an earlier post: "A COURT judge has stepped down after revealing he had 'had enough' of the emotional toil from trying a series of horrifying child grooming gang cases in the city. "

It is clear that you are playing down a large organisation network that has been offending on a disproportionate scale, which can also be justified in the ideology of the fundamentalist.

You, and a few others, I won't mention have got a lot of catching up to do and I suggest that you start here and learn something rather than go through all the apologetics passing the blame onto others.

https://youtu.be/OqWsqH9yHEA

https://youtu.be/0LE3QARjIZg

symyjym · Oct 5, 2020

Another one for the apologists to enjoy!

https://youtu.be/7fBxSr1t464

The Clamp · Oct 5, 2020

Nobody is apologising for paedophilia. From any sector of society.

Grombleton · Oct 5, 2020

The Clamp said:
Nobody is apologising for paedophilia. From any sector of society.

Agreed. You have to be criminally retarded to think anyone would do.

Dr Bandler · Oct 5, 2020

symyjym said:
As for grooming going on in Sussex I would like to know more, and have you reported this information?

The Clamp said:
And yes, grooming goes on in Sussex and police are very aware of it and act on it.

The Clamp is correct. As for detail of what I know and what I have reported it would not be correct for me to write in detail about that on this thread. Suffice to say, I have seen things and know of things in mid-Sussex that were astonishing. All I can say is that the people involved didn't look like they live round here usually.

What I will extrapolate on is that child abuse is more prevalent than most people would wish to believe. It does indeed seem more prevalent in some groups, including the ones you mention, but also some other surprising ones.

symyjym · Oct 5, 2020

Dr Bandler said:
The Clamp is correct. As for detail of what I know and what I have reported it would not be correct for me to write in detail about that on this thread. Suffice to say, I have seen things and know of things in mid-Sussex that were astonishing. All I can say is that the people involved didn't look like they live round here usually.

What I will extrapolate on is that child abuse is more prevalent than most people would wish to believe. It does indeed seem more prevalent in some groups, including the ones you mention, but also some other surprising ones.

I respect your confidentuality, I know absolutelty nothing about these crimes going on in Mid Sussex.

Yes we do know that crimes like this don't just belong to one group. The difference is that with one section of society, they know what they are doing is a crime, the other section in society can justify it as part of the ideology and the girls are shared out even within the family circle.

I strongly believe in calling out bad ideas rather than hiding them and pretending they are not there. People should question their beliefs and use critical thinking. I hear the claims of people, on a regular basis, who believe that a 9 year old can be an adult and ready for an intimate relationship if questioned on it. Just because they cannot criticise their greatest role model. It's a very dangerous mentality on many levels, not just a sexual one.

I am sure that most white male child abusers are lone predators, and I doubt that they have an ideology to justify their actions. Both are as criminal as each other but with different underlying motivations.

Baldseagull · Oct 5, 2020

symyjym said:
Another one for the apologists to enjoy!

https://youtu.be/7fBxSr1t464

I disagree with her view that it is ok to take a slave/concubine as a consequence of war, even if the woman is a citizen of the aggressor, though I accept that the Koran permits it. However, what she seems to be saying is that in Islam, that is the only circumstance in which it is permitted. You seem to be suggesting that muslim grooming gangs in the UK are acting within the bounds of their faith, I would suggest that they break with the Koran in several ways, even if the age of the girls is not one of them.

symyjym · Oct 6, 2020

Baldseagull said:
I disagree with her view that it is ok to take a slave/concubine as a consequence of war, even if the woman is a citizen of the aggressor, though I accept that the Koran permits it. However, what she seems to be saying is that in Islam, that is the only circumstance in which it is permitted. You seem to be suggesting that muslim grooming gangs in the UK are acting within the bounds of their faith, I would suggest that they break with the Koran in several ways, even if the age of the girls is not one of them.

You shouldn't feel the need to disagree about it being okay taking slave/concubines during war but Allah would disagree with you, and only he knows best.

Slave/concubines only being permitted under war conditions sounds great but Jihad, in it's several forms and understandings, is a perpetual battle, the Quran exhauts the believers to fight with a promise of the greatest rewards in Jannah throughout it. I can assure you that with our involvment in the Middle East, it has left a lot of Muslims with a bitter taste in their mouths and they feel they are at war with the west.

So yes if a believer or beliervers consider that they are at war or in a Jihad, they will use the slavery verses.

I am more than suggesting that sexual slavery is within the bounds of faith, it was used as a key motivater for going to war.

Yes you are correct, they should take a long break from their Quran. Preferably leave the ideology and it's teachings altogether and become critical thinkers.

You are correct that the Quran doesn't specifically mention the ages of young females, but it does say that you can marry those who have not yet menstruated.

The verse is regarding a recommended waiting period for marriage, to make sure the female is not already pregnant.

"if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated."

For full verse: https://quran.com/65/4 or http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=65&verse=4 for seven alternative interpretations.

It is fairly clear and cannot mean anything other than what it says.

Any age references are in the Sahih al-bukhari ahadith collection as the primary source.

Baldseagull · Oct 6, 2020

symyjym said:
You shouldn't feel the need to disagree about it being okay taking slave/concubines during war but Allah would disagree with you, and only he knows best.

Slave/concubines only being permitted under war conditions sounds great but Jihad, in it's several forms and understandings, is a perpetual battle, the Quran exhauts the believers to fight with a promise of the greatest rewards in Jannah throughout it. I can assure you that with our involvment in the Middle East, it has left a lot of Muslims with a bitter taste in their mouths and they feel they are at war with the west.

So yes if a believer or beliervers consider that they are at war or in a Jihad, they will use the slavery verses.

I am more than suggesting that sexual slavery is within the bounds of faith, it was used as a key motivater for going to war.

Yes you are correct, they should take a long break from their Quran. Preferably leave the ideology and it's teachings altogether and become critical thinkers.

You are correct that the Quran doesn't specifically mention the ages of young females, but it does say that you can marry those who have not yet menstruated.

The verse is regarding a recommended waiting period for marriage, to make sure the female is not already pregnant.

"if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated."

For full verse: https://quran.com/65/4 or http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=65&verse=4 for seven alternative interpretations.

It is fairly clear and cannot mean anything other than what it says.

Any age references are in the Sahih al-bukhari ahadith collection as the primary source.

What I am saying is that to ply these girls with drugs or alcohol, would be contrary to Islamic teachings, to disobey the law of the land would be contrary to Islamic teachings, and also, to have sexual relations with a girl or woman that was not their wife, nor a slave taken in war, would be contrary to Islamic teachings, but you are saying that the reason they behaved the way they did is because Islam teaches them that it is ok to do so?

I accept that culturally there is a problem, in the way these men perceived these girls, but they were not alone, the Police and Social Services labelled some girls child prostitutes, and didn't care much about their welfare, and that bothers me more because we employ these people in part to prevent this happening, because we know ******** like these men exist.
I am sure they were not telling their Imam at the mosque about what they were up to, and what good Muslims they were being, nor were they telling their wives "just popping out to have sex with a girl from a care home, don't worry, Mohammed said it's ok". I think we can safely say, they knew what they were doing was wrong, in both English and Islamic law.

I think most religions are bat shit crazy, with bad advice for modern humans, here is some from the Bible,

"When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife.

symyjym · Oct 7, 2020

Baldseagull said:
What I am saying is that to ply these girls with drugs or alcohol, would be contrary to Islamic teachings, to disobey the law of the land would be contrary to Islamic teachings, and also, to have sexual relations with a girl or woman that was not their wife, nor a slave taken in war, would be contrary to Islamic teachings, but you are saying that the reason they behaved the way they did is because Islam teaches them that it is ok to do so?

I accept that culturally there is a problem, in the way these men perceived these girls, but they were not alone, the Police and Social Services labelled some girls child prostitutes, and didn't care much about their welfare, and that bothers me more because we employ these people in part to prevent this happening, because we know ******** like these men exist.
I am sure they were not telling their Imam at the mosque about what they were up to, and what good Muslims they were being, nor were they telling their wives "just popping out to have sex with a girl from a care home, don't worry, Mohammed said it's ok". I think we can safely say, they knew what they were doing was wrong, in both English and Islamic law.

I think most religions are bat shit crazy, with bad advice for modern humans, here is some from the Bible,

"When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife.

I can refute all of the above, and my previous comment does regarding Jihad and when the law of the land is negated under the terms and conditions.

Not sure where in the Quran or Hadith it says do not give your sex slaves drink or drugs? Can you point me to this Verse please?

Bringing up the Old Testament is poor.

Too late right now though and will come back later, but for now I would say it would be hard to explain why the Quran is recited during crimes and why there are instances of girls being branded with an "M"

Randy McNob · Oct 7, 2020

Wonder if this will invoke the same outrage?

https://news.sky.com/story/nearly-4...fences-against-children-report-finds-12091598

Baker lite · Oct 7, 2020

Randy McNob said:
Wonder if this will invoke the same outrage?

https://news.sky.com/story/nearly-4...fences-against-children-report-finds-12091598

Why wouldn’t it? A nonce is a nonce... should all be hung in my opinion.

Chicken Run · Oct 7, 2020

Randy McNob said:
Wonder if this will invoke the same outrage?

https://news.sky.com/story/nearly-4...fences-against-children-report-finds-12091598

Shocking, all these filthy sex predators should be branded across the forehead, all of them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

GrizzlingGammon · Oct 7, 2020

Is this thread about how wrong paedophilia is in general, or another way for certain members to peddle their antimuslim agenda?

symyjym · Oct 7, 2020

Randy McNob said:
Wonder if this will invoke the same outrage?

https://news.sky.com/story/nearly-4...fences-against-children-report-finds-12091598

Great news. It shows that the system is working in this instance. The "outrage" happens when people cover a crime up. The Church of England problem is in the public domain and is being taken care of.

Also someone who chooses an NSC username like yours is clearly sexually dodgy, your only intention is to troll and insult to the victims regarding this thread. Anyway you've had your moment of joy.

Grombleton · Oct 7, 2020

symyjym said:
Also someone who chooses an NSC username like yours is clearly sexually dodgy, your only intention is to troll and insult to the victims regarding this thread.

It will take a great number of eminent scientists a lot of time to work how how the hell you've managed to come to that conclusion.

symyjym · Oct 7, 2020

GrizzlingGammon said:
Is this thread about how wrong paedophilia is in general, or another way for certain members to peddle their antimuslim agenda?

Nah, criticising the Islamlic ideology is not anti-Muslm. I am not a Muslimophobe you prick, and I have a very good Muslim family living next door to me.

symyjym · Oct 7, 2020

Grombleton said:
It will take a great number of eminent scientists a lot of time to work how how the hell you've managed to come to that conclusion.

Okay Randy McNob does not have any sexual connotations.

You are insulting the victims too.

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