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Shut up For The Sake of Diversity
- Thread starter symyjym
- Start date
I’m implying no such thing. I’m explicitly saying that you are using these cases as vehicles for your own agenda.
Anyway, I work with victims of this kind of abuse and you’re not helping their cause.
However, I should never have got involved with a thread on this kind of topic that has you as the OP. It was never going to be a well presented, balanced argument.
With that in mind, I respectfully bow out.
All the best.
- Jan 30, 2008
- 782
symyjym
Banned
- Thread starter
- #45
Claims to work with young girls who have actually suffered this sort of abuse, and that I am doing more harm than good. Yet when I genuinely ask him what harm I am causing he has gone silent. It's a valid question.
If he actually bothered to vent his concerns, and maybe helped me to understand them, he may actually help whatever he is afraid of by conveying them to me as an adult rather than trolling with a hidden agenda. If he does work with young victims of abuse he should be fired.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
I believe 37,000 is the number he is giving of all Crown Court cases in backlog, not just rape or sexual abuse.
Randy McNob
Now go home and get your f#cking Shinebox
- Jun 13, 2020
- 4,448
don't want to trivialise a serious subject but the default Brexiter position on that particular debate is to ignore any fact and be completely nonchalent, blase and obtuse when faced with others who have serious concern and just believe what you want. Yet on this subject a complete role reversal, how very peculiar....
Baldseagull
Well-known member
The problem of grooming gangs is not something I want swept under the carpet, and I am disgusted that it has been at times. But I am also pissed off that some racists are seeking validation for their racist views through that.
The major problem to my mind is the lack of care for kids in care and in neglectful families. These kids are at risk from all angles, and describing a 12 year old as a child prostitute as if the 12 year old made a free and conscious career decision is disgusting. It is that which allowed the behaviour of the men to not be seen as rape.
symyjym
Banned
- Thread starter
- #49
You are coming from the angle that the primary problem is the families fault, not taught behaviour of the men who do not see it as rape as at least you do admit. You recognise that part of the problem at least.
Do you know how wrong and dangerous it is to put the blame on the families and care system. I have heard this apologetic before by the way and I don't buy it.
Your other problem is that in your mind I am racist. You are wrong on that as well but you love to use the trigger words that have been taught to you.
Basically you are willing to put the blame on others, and until the families and the care system sorts itself out, you are happy to take the onus off the preditors to deal with their own behaviour. Because it wasn't their fault, it was easy meat.
You are so wrong on many levels.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
No, no and no.
I think the primary problem was the men that raped them, but in terms of it not being investigated, I am blaming the way the authorities viewed the victims, more than the race of the perpetrators.
I don't think you are a racist, you may be, but I have not got that feel from most of your postings, I get the feeling you might be being a bit seduced by some of the angles on this story though.
I am putting the blame for it being able to happen on the care system and social services, and I am putting the blame for nothing being done about it when it was known to be happening, on Social Services and the Police, for not viewing the victims of these crimes in the same way they would have viewed members of their own families.
I really don't know how you got the impression that I thought the mens behaviour was excusable, I specifically accuse those in authority that labelled some of the girls child prostitutes as creating an excuse, and condemn them for it.
I guarantee you that no shits would have been given for race relations if it had been a Police Officers daughter plied with booze and kept locked in a flat for repeated rapings.
sydney
tinky ****in winky
kids are fair game .......but pizzagate never happened , ever , ever , hahahaha lolol...
....CS Bridger sent packing by the MET , and the lady copper mentioned before sent packing also .......so lets just get this straight , it's acceptable , in this day and age , apparently , for young girls to be groomed , schooled, raped and abused by predominantly pakistani/ bangladeshi men ...thats fine "bruv" ........prrrrffffttt...! arse .....the law is an arse , and if you think it's happened in England and it's not rife in the US then you have to be some sort of unicorn chasing hillock.
sydney
tinky ****in winky
they were told they "had no idea what they were dealing with"....fact.
John Bridger ..?? Dredger..?? i can't remember right now he's been to the hague , the whole lot .
symyjym
Banned
- Thread starter
- #53
We understand the problem with the authorities at the time but we also understand the bad reasoning for their massive mistate too, and it is no secret.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-chief-we-ignored-sex-abuse-of-children-hgrhc358v
"A senior police officer admitted that his force ignored the sexual abuse of girls by grooming gangs for decades because it was afraid of increasing “racial tensions”, a watchdog has ruled."
The problem is that no ideology is a race, and if that ideology teaches it's followers that anyone outside their group is a filthy dirty dog, especially the females, we have a problem. It is also a problem that could have been sorted out in house. Unfortuntately it does not go against the grain of teaching from scripture, texts and sources.
It's not just specifically white girls who have fallen victim to this, they are from many diverse backgrounds. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-sanctuary-shelter-muslim-asian-a8225106.html
Now if the excuse for the police is fearing being called racist, gammon whateverophobe we can also see where that problem comes from, and certain members from this group in our society can be blamed too.
But this isn't about passing the buck and your angle could be compared to a rape victim being told that she shouldn't have dressed provocatively. Just take a second and think about it for a moment, because the only way to combat bad ideas, is to expose bad ideas. Not try to pretend it's all in the mind, blame others, and cover it up.
I will credit you for actually conversing with me though even if we do not agree with each other.
Dr Bandler
Well-known member
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-eye-to-westminster-child-abuse-claims-report
"The then commissioner of the Metropolitan police, Sir Joe Simpson, is reported to have said at a Home Office meeting that there were “several cottages in Westminster which we don’t investigate” because “they are frequented by celebrities and MPs”.
The is real, and probably more worthy of our attention than the thoughtforms most people are conditioned to think are the "real" problems to be dealt with.
"The then commissioner of the Metropolitan police, Sir Joe Simpson, is reported to have said at a Home Office meeting that there were “several cottages in Westminster which we don’t investigate” because “they are frequented by celebrities and MPs”.
The is real, and probably more worthy of our attention than the thoughtforms most people are conditioned to think are the "real" problems to be dealt with.
symyjym
Banned
- Thread starter
- #55
I believe you mean Jon Wedger. Not too sure about him tbf. He has a title of a whistle blower but hasn't blown the whistle on anyone. He seems to be a bit of an attention seeker who loves to tell a story or three.
My impression of him is that he is just muddying the waters further, maybe to cover up his own murky past.
I cannot see his name connected with the Hague on a quick search . I could be wrong but in my opinion I don't rate him as a force for good.
symyjym
Banned
- Thread starter
- #56
Cyril Smith, Morrison and the Steel cover up was exposed, and that report also goes on to say;
"The source of some of the most lurid claims about a sinister network of abusers in Westminster has now been discredited with the conviction of Carl Beech."
You are also clearly forgetting that these instances are historic, pre information age, with some facts and many rumours to decipher on dead people.
In today's world, in this country, any politician who has an affair, visits prostitutes or rent boys, takes drugs or has money irregularities and back handers, or does anything out of step gets called out very quickly.
The general public with the victims of abuse, seem to do quite a good job at exposing MP's, priests, teachers and there are no denials with apologetics, whataboutism and blaming others.
So when you say more worthy, you are insulting grooming victims who are still being ignored by people who have been falsely taught the problem is an exageration. This is now with real people, not historic and the dead.
sydney
tinky ****in winky
yes , thats him ...i knew it was an appropriate name .
sydney
tinky ****in winky
pretty sure he has spoken at ECHR or UN in regard to the covering up of pedophilia in the UK....i saw it on the box .......seen any footage of the port explosion in Lebanon on 4th August.....some blow up that mate 6kmsq of the city destroyed....is it in the news over there in dear old England...??
Dr Bandler
Well-known member
You have me wrong. I was referring to the general hysterical obsession with racism, not with grooming and current abuse. I am well aware of the grooming that goes on, including here in Sussex. It is very real and horrific.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
My view is nothing like victim blaming, what I am saying is that you can remove all Pakistani men from the UK, and girls like these will still be at risk from other predatory men because the care system is shit and they are judged to be not worth the effort of safeguarding by Police and Social services, that to me is a bigger concern than which bunch of sickos is taking advantage of the situation.
You have taken the Police Officers word at face value and not put it in context, I say that the attitude of doing nothing about it for the sake of race relations would not apply if the victims were from middle class families, or Police Officers families, or from the Royal family. The problem is that no one gave enough of a shit about these girls to stop it, the abusers saw them as just poor white trash that no one cared about, and so did the people who should have been protecting them, and didn't. I would argue that the Police Officer quoted found it easier to blame racial sensitivity for a lack of action than to say "actually, we just didn't think these girls mattered much"
My kids have Pakistani friends, I promise you, there is not a universal belief amongst Pakistani's that everyone else is a filthy dog, though I have no doubt there are Pakistani racists every bit as hateful and backwards as their white British racist counterparts, who do have those beliefs.