[Help] Motoring Fine - Do I have a defence?

Shropshire Seagull · Aug 9, 2020

I know when [MENTION=18265]LadySeagull[/MENTION] gets folk off parking fines the number one defence is: don't admit you were the driver - and because it's a driver [not the vehicle's registered keeper] who is on charge the private parking company cannot force you to admit who the driver was.

However, if this is a police matter, I think they have those powers, so I suspect you may be banged to rights fella.

As someone else has already stated: £65 for someone knocking about in a 20-plate vehicle = #coughup

Weststander · Aug 9, 2020

A huge cash cow, more than preventative measures.

Westdene Seagull · Aug 9, 2020

Www.pepipoo.com will help.

maltaseagull · Aug 9, 2020

Brighton Lines said:
[MENTION=35524]Knocky's Nose[/MENTION]

I'll counter this by saying by saying it does seem rather harsh and not using the rules is rules mantra. It's a genuine mistake.

Unfortunately, they want to make their money so you will have to pay it.

We live in the age of absolutes.

A genuine mistake could also cause an accident.
You should have been taught when learning to drive to wait until you were sure it was safe to cross the markings rather than hoping they would move on.
Sorry, but pay up and learn from it.

Herr Tubthumper · Aug 9, 2020

I also had a letter from the police which said “Motoring Fine”

Thanks for the compliment I thought.

golddene · Aug 9, 2020

AmexRuislip said:
View attachment 126905
View attachment 126906
View attachment 126907

Found these on here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=82950#entry864472

Had a similar incident some years ago, turning right out of Harwood terrace onto Kings road in Chelsea, there is traffic lights with a yellow box there. Waited three sets of lights to get out but every time they turned green there was no room to get off the hatchings ! Eventually I turned right but my rear wheels were on the yellow lines and sure enough a fine ensued. Luckily there were three of us in the gang and each were registered to drive, none of us owned up so the company paid the charge.

Knocky's Nose · Aug 9, 2020

Goldstone1976 said:
A ‘20’ plate - clearly loaded. No chance. Pay up and move on.

Honestly? Pay up and move on.

Which is where presumptuous people like your good self can often look stupid.

It's a hire van, from Apex Rentals...

Goldstone1976 · Aug 9, 2020

Knocky's Nose said:
Which is where presumptuous people like your good self can often look stupid. It's a hire van, from Apex Rentals...

You carefully edited out the bit where I said: ‘ Not all of this post should be taken seriously.’

Can’t imagine why.

:thumbsup:

Knocky's Nose · Aug 9, 2020

Fair enough. Apologies.

Official Old Man · Aug 9, 2020

Chicken Run said:
Remind the authorities that the rules of the road and general safety don’t apply to drivers of vans, you should be fine [emoji23]

It's a blue van, needs to be white.
Law 263
Subsection 182
Paragraph 4 "Only those in white vans can break all traffic laws"

junkoid · Aug 9, 2020

Muzzy said:
I got caught out in a box junction after some nob undertook me and pulled in front. He cleared the box but I didn’t.
It was on camera and I obviously appealed it. I did nothing wrong imho but still ended up paying the fine.
Winning a parking ticket appeal is one thing, trying to appeal a box junction infringement is quite another. I don’t know of anybody winning an appeal on box junction, ever!

I got out of one about 10 years ago. Entered a box junction that had a clear exit when I entered, but not once a bloke from a side street had sped through (possibly jumping lights) and jammed his car in front of mine. I requested they send me all the pics from 10 secs either side of the 'offence' to prove my point and said I'd see them in court otherwise. The offense is 'entering a yellow hatched area when your exit is not clear' NOT stopping in a hatched area because a dickhead has blocked your exit. They dropped it by return of post.**

So to the OP - if other cars filled the exit area after you entered, you may have a case.

**P.S. It might have made a difference that I was a car journo at the time, and told them I'd be delighted to write up the outcome of the case in my mag.

Palacefinder General · Aug 9, 2020

Knocky's Nose said:
Fair enough. Apologies.

Never use ‘fair enough’ when you can use ‘hairy muff.’ You’ve cocked up enough already on this thread for one day don’t you think, without ballsing that up as well?

Knocky's Nose · Aug 9, 2020

Palacefinder General said:
Never use ‘fair enough’ when you can use ‘hairy muff.’ You’ve cocked up enough already on this thread for one day don’t you think, without ballsing that up as well?

Christ... Look at me. I must be Palace.

trueblue · Aug 10, 2020

Tell them the traffic was moving and you were being towed by the car in front :wink:

LadySeagull · Aug 11, 2020

Knocky's Nose said:
Just got this through the post. I actually remember it clearly, too...

Large hatched area, traffic in distance moving, I carried on as I saw what I thought would be enough room for me to fit into - and whoomp, the cars all stopped dead and the gap became slightly smaller than I had anticipated. I was literally an inch from the car in front, with maybe just under half my van off of the hatched area - but the rear wheels were on it.

I tried my hardest, I wasn't stuck right in the middle of the hatched area looking gormless, and I inconvenienced nobody. Yet, I get a £65 fine through the post.

Pay it and take it on the chin, or do I have a case for appealing it?

Genuinely helpful comments amongst sarcastic and piss-taking ones only, thank you - as per NSC Rules.

View attachment 126904

Firt thing to do is watch the video footage (the PCN tells you how). Then you know how long you were stationary.

This is not from the Police and Box Junctions are cash cows, and TFL or similar PCNs can often be appealed sucessfully.

Take it to pepipoo forum (no hotmail emails allowed):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

I am sure that Uxbridge one has been mentioned before.

If ever a driver finds themselves being caught in a box junction, keep moving SLOWLY and you can't get a PCN, or squeeze in at the left or right sides of the stationary car in front, even if that puts your car at an odd angle or in a lane you don't actually want. You are statioary, it won't matter and you can straighten out once the queue moves. In this image I see space either side and I would have taken that space. Anything to get your rear wheels off the 'Moneybox' junction:

https://moneyboxjunction.wordpress.com/

The other way to avoid a PCN, as I have taught my daughter who lives in London, is if you are really caught, slowly edge forward, then slowly reverse a few inches, then forward, then reverse again.

The contravention is STOPPED and it is not a loophole to keep moving. They can't issue a PCN if you do that (carefully of course).

Arthritic Toe · Aug 11, 2020

LadySeagull said:
The other way to avoid a PCN, as I have taught my daughter who lives in London, is if you are really caught, slowly edge forward, then slowly reverse a few inches, then forward, then reverse again.

The contravention is STOPPED and it is not a loophole to keep moving. They can't issue a PCN if you do that (carefully of course).

I'm surprised that defence works - surely there must be a point at which you are stopped when transitioning between forward and reverse?

MJsGhost · Aug 11, 2020

Could you just tell them that you were on a drive to test your eyesight?

LadySeagull · Aug 13, 2020

Arthritic Toe said:
I'm surprised that defence works - surely there must be a point at which you are stopped when transitioning between forward and reverse?

No, it does work! There is a requirement for the camera operator to capture the vehicle stationary in the 'moneybox' more than momentarily. Moving is not 'stopped' and the letter of the law applies to that contravention which contains the word 'stopped'.

Believe me, it's true, it works and that's what I'd do, 100%. Take it as a tip from me and remember i!

Either squeeze into the wrong lane (even over an edge line or gap to the left if there is space and no other lane - not on the pavement though!) or keep moving slowly to and fro. I've seen people on pepipoo talk about it for years; it's to do with the doctrine of 'de minimis' (the law doesn't concern itself with trifling matters).

Billy the Fish · Aug 13, 2020

BLOCK F said:
In the 'Court of Reasonableness', you shouldn't incur a fine for such an 'offence'. However, it doesn't exist and so you'll just have to pay up and be pissed off.
Do you get points for this misdemeanour or not?
Bad luck anyway.

stss30 said:
You won't get much sympathy on here seemingly! But seems to me to be a harsh one. Unfortunately they've got you bang to rights, so I guess it's a case of paying the fine and moving on, although if it were me I'd be equally frustrated.

Should be plenty of sympathy, easy mistake to make in London and I've done it without being fined. Those boxes can be very deceptive and the speed of the other cars can make it look like you're swimming through it until they all slam on the brakes!

£65 fine for that is just a horrible kick in the teeth.

Shropshire Seagull · Aug 13, 2020

Billy the Fish said:
Should be plenty of sympathy ....

In our house, anyone looking for sympathy is quickly redirected to look for it in the dictionary.
As an added help, this is followed up with "it's between shit and syphilis" !!

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