[Football] "Graham Potter’s side remain a gloriously flawed machine": The Observer 12 July

sagaman · Jul 16, 2020

Jonathan Llew's analysis is the best by a journalist of our current side

Some extracts

"On the horizon where beauty and sadism meet, Manchester City tore Brighton to ornate, sumptuous shreds. It was luxurious, it was cruel, it was pointless and yet in a strange way seemed to mean everything. Everyone knows that City’s biggest battles lie further afield"

"Graham Potter’s side remain a gloriously flawed machine: polished and expansive, probably the most attractive side in the bottom half, and yet still liable to keel over at the slightest breeze. Sort the defence out and there’s a top-10 side in there. But it will need a few new personnel and perhaps even a culture shift, for right now they are the sort of team you relish playing"

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...n-manchester-city-premier-league-match-report

BBassic · Jul 16, 2020

Not many fans of us in the comments to that piece.

General consensus, probably fairly, is that we've been lucky to be the 4th worst team in the league during our time here.

rippleman · Jul 16, 2020

Can't really argue with any of that well written report. This made me chuckle...

".......even the cardboard cutouts at the Amex Stadium could have been forgiven for leaving early to beat the traffic."

DarrenFreemansPerm · Jul 16, 2020

sagaman said:
Jonathan Llew's analysis is the best by a journalist of our current side

An extract:

and yet still liable to keel over at the slightest breeze

That had me chuckling, it’s so true, we can give it the biggun with some beautiful one touch football, but the moment the opposition says ‘no, we’re not having this’ we shit ourselves and fall apart.

DarrenFreemansPerm · Jul 16, 2020

BBassic said:
Not many fans of us in the comments to that piece.

General consensus, probably fairly, is that we've been lucky to be the 4th worst team in the league during our time here.

Jeez, those comments are a car crash, clearly we’re not very popular but you do get the impression that the majority of people commenting only really know about the top 6 teams etc.

Dick Swiveller · Jul 16, 2020

Not entirely sure I agree with that. On the whole, the defence is as solid as you could expect for a bottom half team. Our main issue is our style of play against certain teams. Watford away showed how devastating our passing from the back style can be. Spurs and Arsenal suffered as well. When it is just forwards pressing, we can spring it quite easily and pull the other team around. The problem comes against sides that excel at pressing as a team. City and Liverpool hounded us to death. Break the press from the forwards and you hit an excellent pressing midfield. And we just aren't good enough to not make costly mistakes when that happens.The main barrier to a solution is the lack of a big man up top to mix it up. No way are Bournemouth that much better than us but they gave City the runaround because their style didn't necessitate the City press. City have a weak underbelly at the back which is why they are so far behind Liverpool despite a better squad and better style of football. We never got near laying a glove on them because we were easy to nullify with the quality of pressing they have. We need a Plan B when the passing from the back doesn't work and short of long balls to Burn, I'm not sure we have one.

Stato · Jul 16, 2020

It's a fancy metaphor, but not an acute analysis and doesn't give enough credit to Manchester City. He says that we are a team 'you relish playing', not 'City would relish playing'. The latter would be a fair statement given the two results against them this season. Potter hasn't worked out a way to play City and trying to play our game against them sees us get steamrollered, especially as we had nothing to combat their quick and aggressive ball recovery.

However, none of the teams who have failed to score against us in the last three away games would have relished playing Brighton. Most of our defeats this season have actually been hard fought and we have been draw specialists, suggesting that we're not easy to beat.

The comment about the defence is silly. On the strength of watching the City game alone, you would think that the defence needs sorting, but given that he also suggests that there is a top ten side in there, he cannot possibly be basing his analysis on that single game. We showed nothing in that match to suggest that we have any potential at all. Therefore if his analysis is based on the wider season, his assumption that it is the defence that needs sorting out to improve us is very wide of the mark. Over the season we have conceded a similar number of goals to Chelsea. It is the fact that we have scored just over half as many that leaves us in the bottom half. Only three teams in this division have scored less goals than us this season. Sorting the defence out would not overcome our main weakness.

Liew's whole report on that game was style over substance: In some parts wonderful to read, but to the detriment of accuracy. If he can improve his willingness to kill his darlings, there may be a top ten writer in there.

DarrenFreemansPerm · Jul 16, 2020

Dick Swiveller said:
Not entirely sure I agree with that. On the whole, the defence is as solid as you could expect for a bottom half team. Our main issue is our style of play against certain teams. Watford away showed how devastating our passing from the back style can be. Spurs and Arsenal suffered as well. When it is just forwards pressing, we can spring it quite easily and pull the other team around. The problem comes against sides that excel at pressing as a team. City and Liverpool hounded us to death. Break the press from the forwards and you hit an excellent pressing midfield. And we just aren't good enough to not make costly mistakes when that happens.The main barrier to a solution is the lack of a big man up top to mix it up. No way are Bournemouth that much better than us but they gave City the runaround because their style didn't necessitate the City press. City have a weak underbelly at the back which is why they are so far behind Liverpool despite a better squad and better style of football. We never got near laying a glove on them because we were easy to nullify with the quality of pressing they have. We need a Plan B when the passing from the back doesn't work and short of long balls to Burn, I'm not sure we have one.

To be honest I wouldn’t read too much into it, the fact that we started with 50% of our perceived best back 4 against a ruthless City team doesn’t appear to have been taken into account.

zefarelly · Jul 16, 2020

DarrenFreemansPerm said:
That had me chuckling, it’s so true, we can give it the biggun with some beautiful one touch football, but the moment the opposition says ‘no, we’re not having this’ we shit ourselves and fall apart.

Quite, as I Said the other day, we lack any kind of killer instinct. Which must be a mental weakness?

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jul 16, 2020

Tedious confirmation bias. It will take many years in the PL before the lazy minded bother to challenge their preconceptions. Till then we we continue to be 'teamslikebrighton' :shrug:

DarrenFreemansPerm · Jul 16, 2020

zefarelly said:
Quite, as I Said the other day, we lack any kind of killer instinct. Which must be a mental weakness?

Is it mentality, personnel or both?

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jul 16, 2020

Stato said:
It's a fancy metaphor, but not an acute analysis and doesn't give enough credit to Manchester City. He says that we are a team 'you relish playing', not 'City would relish playing'. The latter would be a fair statement given the two results against them this season. Potter hasn't worked out a way to play City and trying to play our game against them sees us get steamrollered, especially as we had nothing to combat their quick and aggressive ball recovery.

However, none of the teams who have failed to score against us in the last three away games would have relished playing Brighton. Most of our defeats this season have actually been hard fought and we have been draw specialists, suggesting that we're not easy to beat.

The comment about the defence is silly. On the strength of watching the City game alone, you would think that the defence needs sorting, but given that he also suggests that there is a top ten side in there, he cannot possibly be basing his analysis on that single game. We showed nothing in that match to suggest that we have any potential at all. Therefore if his analysis is based on the wider season, his assumption that it is the defence that needs sorting out to improve us is very wide of the mark. Over the season we have conceded a similar number of goals to Chelsea. It is the fact that we have scored just over half as many that leaves us in the bottom half. Only three teams in this division have scored less goals than us this season. Sorting the defence out would not overcome our main weakness.

Liew's whole report on that game was style over substance: In some parts wonderful to read, but to the detriment of accuracy. If he can improve his willingness to kill his darlings, there may be a top ten writer in there.

Exactly.

Lazy journalist say we are shit, and certain Brighton supporters, still suffering from imposter syndrome, nod in agreement.

I still see games like that last Citeh one as a training exercise - Potter can use it to see and show to the players where we lack a bit if we have any ambition to play expansive football and do well. He could easily have played 5 at the back and Murray up front so we eked out a plucky 1-4 defeat, but we already knew we could do that last season.

It is true we aren't a nasty side, a bullying side, a niggling side, but that's the way we like it. We have a nasty player on our books, but plenty on NSC just couldn't wait to see the back of him. Flozza, I mean.

I'm not interested in smarty pants journalists talking us down. They can faaaak off and watch Arsenal as far as I'm concerned.

elwheelio · Jul 16, 2020

zefarelly said:
Quite, as I Said the other day, we lack any kind of killer instinct. Which must be a mental weakness?

Agreed. We're quite weak, physically and mentally. There's not a lot of leadership or bite in the current team. Maupay is a scrapper but he's one of the only ones. I sometimes get the sense that GP/the club feel we should get praise for trying to play "good" football. I'd rather be a bit more pragmatic and win than look nice and lose.

Cheshire Cat · Jul 16, 2020

What about the "culture change"?

Does he mean from Grand Opera to Fine Art?

JBizzle · Jul 16, 2020

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Exactly.

Lazy journalist say we are shit, and certain Brighton supporters, still suffering from imposter syndrome, nod in agreement.

I still see games like that last Citeh one as a training exercise - Potter can use it to see and show to the players where we lack a bit if we have any ambition to play expansive football and do well. He could easily have played 5 at the back and Murray up front so we eked out a plucky 1-4 defeat, but we already knew we could do that last season.

It is true we aren't a nasty side, a bullying side, a niggling side, but that's the way we like it. We have a nasty player on our books, but plenty on NSC just couldn't wait to see the back of him. Flozza, I mean.

I'm not interested in smarty pants journalists talking us down. They can faaaak off and watch Arsenal as far as I'm concerned.

I think there's a difference between being "nasty" and being "competitive". Andone doesn't make us more competitive because he's a bit of a loon. Maupay is a better example of the kind of player I'd like to see more of at the Albion: Snidey and a bit of a sh*thouse

AlbionBro · Jul 16, 2020

Dick Swiveller said:
Not entirely sure I agree with that. On the whole, the defence is as solid as you could expect for a bottom half team. Our main issue is our style of play against certain teams. Watford away showed how devastating our passing from the back style can be. Spurs and Arsenal suffered as well. When it is just forwards pressing, we can spring it quite easily and pull the other team around. The problem comes against sides that excel at pressing as a team. City and Liverpool hounded us to death. Break the press from the forwards and you hit an excellent pressing midfield. And we just aren't good enough to not make costly mistakes when that happens.The main barrier to a solution is the lack of a big man up top to mix it up. No way are Bournemouth that much better than us but they gave City the runaround because their style didn't necessitate the City press. City have a weak underbelly at the back which is why they are so far behind Liverpool despite a better squad and better style of football. We never got near laying a glove on them because we were easy to nullify with the quality of pressing they have. We need a Plan B when the passing from the back doesn't work and short of long balls to Burn, I'm not sure we have one.

I agree with your well put piece, you have quite possibly outclassed the journalist.
My only issue is I think Graham will come up with a plan B and hope he deploys it against those hardworking saints tonight. A draw would be great.

Icy Gull · Jul 16, 2020

zefarelly said:
Quite, as I Said the other day, we lack any kind of killer instinct. Which must be a mental weakness?

I’d be more inclined to go for lacking in the required quality upfront and in midfield (on the goal scoring front). You don’t stay in this division for three years (fingers crossed) if you are mentally weak FACT ( second time I have used FACT in a post today ;smile: )

I really hope we can address this striker and goal scoring midfield problem this close season, it has been going on for too long.

I have no argument with the gloriously flawed machine comment, in fact I agree but I bloody love how we are trying to play these days. Potter just needs to reign in going toe to toe from the off with the top sides and adjust the tactics in these games imo

Bakero · Jul 16, 2020

BBassic said:
Not many fans of us in the comments to that piece.

General consensus, probably fairly, is that we've been lucky to be the 4th worst team in the league during our time here.

The commenter "VoiceofReason08" trolls every piece on Brighton on the Guardian/Observer. Ridiculous that he got a Guardian Pick for one of his replies.

Live by the sea · Jul 16, 2020

Typical bull@@it from an observer/ Guardian journalist, all style no substance .

Herr Tubthumper · Jul 16, 2020

sagaman said:
Jonathan Llew's analysis is the best by a journalist of our current side

Some extracts

"On the horizon where beauty and sadism meet, Manchester City tore Brighton to ornate, sumptuous shreds. It was luxurious, it was cruel, it was pointless and yet in a strange way seemed to mean everything. Everyone knows that City’s biggest battles lie further afield"

"Graham Potter’s side remain a gloriously flawed machine: polished and expansive, probably the most attractive side in the bottom half, and yet still liable to keel over at the slightest breeze. Sort the defence out and there’s a top-10 side in there. But it will need a few new personnel and perhaps even a culture shift, for right now they are the sort of team you relish playing"

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...n-manchester-city-premier-league-match-report

I agree with most of this, except “keel over” and the “relish” line. City turn over many many teams with similar score lines; eg Liverpool a week earlier. We’d played Man U, Liverpool, City and a must-win at Norwich in a very short space of time; that’s a heavy schedule for any team and no wonder we looked a bit flat by the end of that run. I felt exhausted myself, and all I was doing was sipping beer.

I’m not too fussed about the City result and Little should be read into this single game and score-line.

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[Football] "Graham Potter’s side remain a gloriously flawed machine": The Observer 12 July

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