Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Horseshoe politics. The extreme right is very similar to the extreme left.
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[Misc] Cancel Culture/Online Shaming
- Thread starter Eeyore
- Start date
Horseshoe politics. The extreme right is very similar to the extreme left.
Although 'cancel culture' is - like the other lazy trope 'political correctness gone mad' - being used as a stick to attack the Left, the Right too have traditionally tried to silence people they disagree with.
Mary Whitehouse was always going to the High Court to get TV programmes banned (even without having seen them) because they apparently contained Blasphemy, swearing or explicit sex - I'd rather make my own mind up about what to watch, subject to a prior warning about the nature of the potentially offensive content.
The on-line comments of the Daily Mail are overflowing with permanently outraged Gammons demanding that X should be banned, Y should be sacked, and Z should be closed down. In fact, "It's disgraceful; it should be banned" seems to be the knee-jerk response of most pearl-clutching, net-curtain-twitching, sexually-frustrated Mail readers to absolutely anything they dislike or don't understand.
As for universities being criticised for not allowing free speech because of 'no-platforming' controversial people - I can well imagine the outrage which would ensue from Right-wingers if a student union invited someone like Gerry Adams to give a talk on 'Why Terrorism is OK to achieve political change'; the 'defend free speech' brigade would be howling for the whole university to be closed down!
Like the term 'snowflake - used against supposedly over-sensitive thin-skinned liberals - the people who tend to use the label (as an insult) are precisely the sort of people who would punch you in the face if they heard you criticise the Monarchy or Nigel Farage.
If it is good that people should be exposed to a variety of views and opinions (and I do believe it is), let's start with the media - what diversity of views and alternative opinions are permitted by the Daily Mail, the Daily Express, The Sun, the Daily Telegraph? Yet they have the sheer audacity to accuse liberals and the Left of creating an 'echo-chamber'.
People in glass-houses......
Mary Whitehouse was always going to the High Court to get TV programmes banned (even without having seen them) because they apparently contained Blasphemy, swearing or explicit sex - I'd rather make my own mind up about what to watch, subject to a prior warning about the nature of the potentially offensive content.
The on-line comments of the Daily Mail are overflowing with permanently outraged Gammons demanding that X should be banned, Y should be sacked, and Z should be closed down. In fact, "It's disgraceful; it should be banned" seems to be the knee-jerk response of most pearl-clutching, net-curtain-twitching, sexually-frustrated Mail readers to absolutely anything they dislike or don't understand.
As for universities being criticised for not allowing free speech because of 'no-platforming' controversial people - I can well imagine the outrage which would ensue from Right-wingers if a student union invited someone like Gerry Adams to give a talk on 'Why Terrorism is OK to achieve political change'; the 'defend free speech' brigade would be howling for the whole university to be closed down!
Like the term 'snowflake - used against supposedly over-sensitive thin-skinned liberals - the people who tend to use the label (as an insult) are precisely the sort of people who would punch you in the face if they heard you criticise the Monarchy or Nigel Farage.
If it is good that people should be exposed to a variety of views and opinions (and I do believe it is), let's start with the media - what diversity of views and alternative opinions are permitted by the Daily Mail, the Daily Express, The Sun, the Daily Telegraph? Yet they have the sheer audacity to accuse liberals and the Left of creating an 'echo-chamber'.
People in glass-houses......
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dingodan
New member
- Feb 16, 2011
- 10,080
It's when the mob becomes more powerful than the law.
The law says you have freedom of speech.
The mob says no you don't.
This battle is being waged right now, and if the mob win then we are all f*cked.
rogersix
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2014
- 7,904
Jon Ronson wrote a book a few years back on public shaming via social media a few years back. As with all his output, it's worth a read imo. Here's a related TED talk by Ronson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAIP6fI0NAI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAIP6fI0NAI
cunning fergus
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,747
This view comes from the mindset that issues can be dealt with on a right and left wing basis, which itself is problematic as not all issues can be neatly pigeon holed that way.
The debate on transgender rights is a case in point, as no one could say (genuinely) that Germaine Greer is right wing for holding the view that the definition of a woman is based on biology.
https://www.varsity.co.uk/news/8105
In my view the battlegrounds of all of these these types of debate is the perennial struggle between radicalism and conservatism (small c).
The interesting thing with GG is that she was once a radical herself and is now conservative (small c), and this has much to do with where opposing sides seek to place the “centre ground” or put another way the majority held view.
These days it appears the new generation of radicals need to find new struggles to fight despite the progress made by their radical forebears. A point encapsulated by GG, who no doubt finds it ironic that having spent her life fighting male dominance, she is now being outed as a bigot because she does not agree that men identifying as women are not women.
I guess it’s a just another cycle of the parents of revolutions being consumed by the children, (like Robespierre) but then the lesson there is ignore the radicals.
joydivisionovengloves
Well-known member
I agree that the left - right binary is irrelevant in this particular debate, no matter how much some on both sides would like to frame it as such. I don't see the cancellers or shamers as particularly radical though. You could say it's a rebellion against traditional liberal norms and perhaps hints at a shift from individualism to collectivism. At times this could be a force for good. The internet has given a voice to the voiceless and power to the powerless and the traditional gatekeepers are no longer omnipotent. Undoubtedly though, the anonymity of the web, along with echo chambers and the serotonin-boosting affirmation granted by likes and retweets, fuels a mob mentality at times.
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
I wonder whether there is an element of industrial sabotage to it, backed by political interests.
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 70,221
Global corporations now live in terror of the social media lynch mob. Beyond pathetic, and it's only going to get worse before it gets better. It's the new McCarthyism and it's far from healthy
Barham's tash
Well-known member
And the manner in which it was done. “Sorry old chap but you understand we just have to absolutely do this. You gave us no choice.”
I genuinely thought it was also the recent phenomenon of not thinking twice about pulling out plans without a real reason on friends, restaurants etc where there is either an emotional or actual cost.
7:18
Brighton & Hove Albion
Which isn’t true is it?
midnight_rendezvous
Well-known member
It’s funny how a lot of the people moaning about cancel culture and being silenced, are doing it very loudly and in national newspapers. Funny old world innit. 
Ah yes, that reminds me of the other sentiment I've seen in this discussion - cancel culture is the free market at work. People choosing where to spend their money, businesses to frequent, etc. If they don't like one of your employees, they will shop elsewhere. That's the free market at work.
I think they should. I was adding another comment that I was agreeing with. That cancel culture was, at least initially, bemoaned by the same people who usually promote free market capitalism as the best thing ever.
Very Tory, free market capatalism, isn't it?
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,338
Which is a good thing.
Mo Gosfield
Well-known member
- Aug 11, 2010
- 6,284
Pretty harsh critique of the 20th century and earlier. The vast majority of people that I encountered in the last half of the 20th century didn't hold views like these. In the main, they were sensible and tolerant and not prone to over-reaction. You make it sound as if it was the Dark Ages, not a time of rapid advancement, enlightenment and aspiration. In the 21st century, thus far, educational standards have declined, society has continued to become more selfish and less tolerant.