[Albion] Propper

twickers · Jul 13, 2020

blue-shifted said:
As ever with these threads, the truth about Davy is somewhere in the middle of the two extremes being argued. The whole time he has been with us, he has had extended periods of both good and bad form.

The way I see it, is that he's a player that improves our squad, but (assuming he stays) has a starting place which is vulnerable to a summer purchase, the emergence of a youngster and a tactical reshuffle.

In particular, I think Mooy is far more adept at receiving the ball from the keeper and moving it on first time than Davy. I Davy's form doesn't improve it wouldn't surprise me to see something more like ...

---------------Ryan
Lamptey Webby Dunk Burn
--------Bissouma Mooy
----Gross Alexis Trossard
-------------Maupay

I believe we've seen the best of Gross, Propper, Stephens and Mooy. Would I prioritise changing any of them over another striker? No.
I would prioritise changing any of them over tweaking the back. Then it's a question of prioritising the 4 of them. Are there stats that would determine the order?

peterward · Jul 13, 2020

PILTDOWN MAN said:
For the life of me, I just do not see what he does well. He can't tackle, certainly can't head the ball (you have to put yourself in a position to compete, he stands off, always!), he strolls around when he should be busting a gut to retreat when we are defending and he never takes the ball at his feet and burst forwards. If anyone can enlighten me please do. This has nothing to do with his mistake but his overall game play every game.

Here here brother!

I honestly feel the same. There is a very rare flash of something, but I just don't get the acclamation. He's easily brushed off the ball, doesn't track back, loses ball by either getting caught in possession or crap passes on to many occasions, rarely scores or offers a threat around the opposition box. I just don't see what others do :shrug:

Would be delighted to get a quality CM in, at the very least the competition may make Davy up the ante.

PILTDOWN MAN · Jul 13, 2020

peterward said:
Here here brother!

I honestly feel the same. There is a very rare flash of something, but I just don't get the acclamation. He's easily brushed off the ball, doesn't track back, loses ball by either getting caught in possession or crap passes on to many occasions, rarely scores or offers a threat around the opposition box. I just don't see what others do

Would be delighted to get a quality CM in, at the very least the competition may make Davy up the ante.

Stephens is often blamed for things but until this season we missed him when he’s not in the team. Not sure we’d miss Propper. Both need to move on if we are to get better.

There’s a lot of posters that appear to be happy with the personnel in the team, unless we challenge each and everyone (Ryan) we will forever be in the bottom 6 or 7.

Bold Seagull · Jul 13, 2020

It looks like Propper has just been given his membership card to the long established: Brighton and Hove Albion Not Rated Highly Enough Centre Midfield Club.

Stephens, it's latest Chair and spokesperson said today that despite losing his place in the team, he was delighted Propper could join this not so exclusive club. Gary Dicker said that he admired Propper's grooming choices and looked forward to sharing ideas. Dean Hammond, club secretary said that new members of the club were always welcomed with open arms. Ryan Harley wasn't available for comment.

albionalex · Jul 13, 2020

symyjym said:
Yes it's certainly true that Ryan boots the ball out for a throw in once or twice a game. Twice against Man City. These stats are not included.

Those would fall under 'inaccurate passes', which as per the chart Maty Ryan statistically makes the least of out of any goalkeeper outside the top 6.

vagabond · Jul 13, 2020

peterward said:
Here here brother!

I honestly feel the same. There is a very rare flash of something, but I just don't get the acclamation. He's easily brushed off the ball, doesn't track back, loses ball by either getting caught in possession or crap passes on to many occasions, rarely scores or offers a threat around the opposition box. I just don't see what others do

Would be delighted to get a quality CM in, at the very least the competition may make Davy up the ante.

PILTDOWN MAN said:
For the life of me, I just do not see what he does well. He can't tackle, certainly can't head the ball (you have to put yourself in a position to compete, he stands off, always!), he strolls around when he should be busting a gut to retreat when we are defending and he never takes the ball at his feet and burst forwards. If anyone can enlighten me please do. This has nothing to do with his mistake but his overall game play every game.

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Seasidesage · Jul 13, 2020

Disagree with the prevailing wind. For me Propper is a decent player, playing really really awfully. He certainly needs dropping currently but selling is another matter at this point IMO. It's an area we need to improve for sure and I think Stephens days are numbered, after that Propper will come under focus as Bissouma is clearly on the upgrade but moving on half the side in the summer is just plain silly.

symyjym · Jul 13, 2020

albionalex said:
Those would fall under 'inaccurate passes', which as per the chart Maty Ryan statistically makes the least of out of any goalkeeper outside the top 6.

Inaccurate? It should be under a missing the pitch entirely game average stats.

We can come back to it later over the next 3 games if you want. I would predict that he misses the pitch entirely 4 times over the next 3 games, and they will always be with his left foot.

dazzer6666 · Jul 13, 2020

symyjym said:
Inaccurate? It should be under a missing the pitch entirely game average stats.

We can come back to it later over the next 3 games if you want. I would predict that he misses the pitch entirely 4 times over the next 3 games, and they will always be with his left foot.

Small margins though isn’t it.....when he does that, he’s aiming for the head of a lighthouse who is more often than not stood right on the touchline - a foot too high and it looks like a crap kick (and another missed pass stat). If he hoofed it down the middle all the time I guess you’d be happy..........

big nuts · Jul 13, 2020

dazzer6666 said:
Small margins though isn’t it.....when he does that, he’s aiming for the head of a lighthouse who is more often than not stood right on the touchline - a foot too high and it looks like a crap kick (and another missed pass stat). If he hoofed it down the middle all the time I guess you’d be happy..........

You are always taught when you hit a cross field pass over hit rather than under hit.

If you over hit the worst outcome is you concede a throw in. No real danger.

Under hit and you are vulnerable with players out of position and a dangerous counter very likely.

As you say he could hoof down the middle but it’s not as though we are blessed with significant height upfront. The ball wide to Burn is a premeditated tactic and Ryan is kicking to team instruction.

symyjym · Jul 13, 2020

dazzer6666 said:
Small margins though isn’t it.....when he does that, he’s aiming for the head of a lighthouse who is more often than not stood right on the touchline - a foot too high and it looks like a crap kick (and another missed pass stat). If he hoofed it down the middle all the time I guess you’d be happy..........

Don't try to be a smart arse we know who he is aiming for, and if the lighthouse isn't where he should be a you suggest he needs to use a different option. So in this instance aim down the middle if the lighthouse isn't in position and aim for Maupay instead.

symyjym · Jul 13, 2020

Plooks said:
That means nothing unless you watch and count the same thing for all the other keepers in the Premier league.

Twice in one game is too much.

symyjym · Jul 13, 2020

big nuts said:
You are always taught when you hit a cross field pass over hit rather than under hit.

If you over hit the worst outcome is you concede a throw in. No real danger.

Under hit and you are vulnerable with players out of position and a dangerous counter very likely.

As you say he could hoof down the middle but it’s not as though we are blessed with significant height upfront. The ball wide to Burn is a premeditated tactic and Ryan is kicking to team instruction.

[MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] Has already conceded that the problem is Burn being out of position.

symyjym · Jul 13, 2020

Plooks said:
Well in that case how do you know ANY keeper can do less than that? How do you know you are not asking for something that simply does not exist?

I've seen quite a few games to understand that goalkeepers can go many games without doing so.

We will come back to this after the last three games?

albionalex · Jul 13, 2020

symyjym said:
Inaccurate? It should be under a missing the pitch entirely game average stats.

We can come back to it later over the next 3 games if you want. I would predict that he misses the pitch entirely 4 times over the next 3 games, and they will always be with his left foot.

And so what if he does? Or are you saying he has to be 100% accurate all the time.

dazzer6666 · Jul 14, 2020

symyjym said:
[MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] Has already conceded that the problem is Burn being out of position.

No I didn't - I was just stating the facts. Burn is almost certainly where Potter has told him to be (he is there far too often for it to be 'out of position'), and accepts that there is a risk Maty won't put it precisely on his head from 40-50 yards every single time. Blame Potter if you don't like the ball being kicked directly into touch a couple of time a game, not Maty - he's still got the best long-ball stats of any keeper outside of the top 6.

symyjym · Jul 14, 2020

albionalex said:
And so what if he does? Or are you saying he has to be 100% accurate all the time.

dazzer6666 said:
No I didn't - I was just stating the facts. Burn is almost certainly where Potter has told him to be (he is there far too often for it to be 'out of position'), and accepts that there is a risk Maty won't put it precisely on his head from 40-50 yards every single time. Blame Potter if you don't like the ball being kicked directly into touch a couple of time a game, not Maty - he's still got the best long-ball stats of any keeper outside of the top 6.

Stop being a couple of wet lettuces :lolol:

albionalex · Jul 14, 2020

symyjym said:
Stop being a couple of wet lettuces

Uh_huh_him · Jul 14, 2020

rippleman said:
I'm a fan too and feel a bit disloyal to be backing up your comments.

I like the playing out from the back idea; Man City and Liverpool have had great success with it. But we don't have their quality of players to be able to do it. We either end up tappying it around for a few passes then end up hoofing it or we give the ball away and give the opponents an opportunity. Propper isn't our only player who can't play the tappy in and around our own box kind of game.

If we are going to persist with the current "from the back" style then we need to replace Davy with a player more competent in that role.

I don't really agree with the statement tbh.
Plenty of times this season where it has worked really well, with Davy moving it through the midfield once the press has been pulled out of position.
More often we work it down the flanks when teams aren't looking to press, very rarely do we "hoof it" and give the ball away.
We may go long to Burn on the left wing. But this is mainly to mix it up with a fairly high percentage long ball to the tallest player on the pitch.

The times it has gone wrong is when playing against teams who press really well and commit to blocking the options, forcing a mistake.
Man City and Liverpool are excellent at it so it's understandable that people think we always do it badly.
But we don't.

symyjym · Jul 14, 2020

albionalex said:

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