[Politics] Jacinda Arden

colinz · Jun 9, 2020

IMO Australia has done a better job than NZ.
It's achieved similar per capita results despite the more difficult geographical logistics, and shutting down less of it's industry.

Thankfully when things go tits up down here economically, we have an escape hatch called Australia.

Gwylan · Jun 9, 2020

colinz said:
IMO Australia has done a better job than NZ.
It's achieved similar per capita results despite the more difficult geographical logistics, and shutting down less of it's industry.

Thankfully when things go tits up down here economically, we have an escape hatch called Australia.

I was talking to an Aussie friend about that. The difference is that in Australia it was the state premiers who pushed the measures through - Scott Morrison was wavering about his response and the states acted for him. What's been interesting about this though is that instead of fighting them, Morrison has adopted most of the measures and has also stolen a lot of Labor's clothes eg a Keynesian boost to the economy,

While he hasn't had the massive boost in popularity that Ardern has (don't forget, she's not in charge of the largest party so for her to be any sort of lead is some achievement), his figures are on the rise and looks set to win the next election - that's some change around from the inept looking figure after the bush fires at the start of the year.

What the polls also show (NZ, Oz, Germany etc) is that a crises are good for governments - voters cut them a lot of slack and if the crisis is well managed, that's a ratings boost. The concern for Johnson is that, even with that goodwill, they're barely in the lead - it's not a good place to be.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Jun 9, 2020

Gwylan said:
I was talking to an Aussie friend about that. The difference is that in Australia it was the state premiers who pushed the measures through - Scott Morrison was wavering about his response and the states acted for him. What's been interesting about this though is that instead of fighting them, Morrison has adopted most of the measures and has also stolen a lot of Labor's clothes eg a Keynesian boost to the economy,

While he hasn't had the massive boost in popularity that Ardern has (don't forget, she's not in charge of the largest party so for her to be any sort of lead is some achievement), his figures are on the rise and looks set to win the next election - that's some change around from the inept looking figure after the bush fires at the start of the year.

What the polls also show (NZ, Oz, Germany etc) is that a crises are good for governments - voters cut them a lot of slack and if the crisis is well managed, that's a ratings boost. The concern for Johnson is that, even with that goodwill, they're barely in the lead - it's not a good place to be.

Morrison has much to answer for on the issue of global warming.

Gwylan · Jun 9, 2020

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
Morrison has much to answer for on the issue of global warming.

Indeed but that's not a concern of most Australians. In fact, he won the last election by brandishing lumps of coal and talking about how essential it was for the country's economy.

Hampster Gull · Jun 9, 2020

I have family out there. They are proud to have her leading them through this

Surf's Up · Jun 9, 2020

blue-shifted said:
She has a 30 point lead because she displays clear and genuine empathy with her citizens.

More importantly, she has got the big calls right. That surely the first thing you expect from your leaders. That they are intelligent and get the best people around them. This enables you to get those decisions right. (I kind of look at Arden as kind of a Paul Barber figure, but with added humanity).

Contrast this with the complete shower of p*** we've got over here. Dogmatic, deceitful, career driven, opportunistic. We have a leadership selected not because of any ability or compassion, (the half decent ones were kicked out), the cabinet we have were selected due to ideological fervour

, the fact that they're all pretty thick and the fact that they are all sycophants.

Amended for you.

Deleted member 22389 · Jun 9, 2020

Billy the Fish said:
You can't argue with her record but I said a while back that NZ was one of the easier countries to protect. In football terms she's kept her composure and buried a tap in.

Tiny population, 4 hours flight to the nearest country, 8 hours to the next nearest, literally on the edge of the world.

Exactly.

Is it PotG? · Jun 9, 2020

I feel even Sami Hyypiä could have managed the NZ scenario.

LlcoolJ · Jun 9, 2020

studio150 said:
Can you image Johnson carrying on with a TV interview during an earthquake.

He would have SHAT himself and hidden IN a FRIDGE.

LlcoolJ · Jun 9, 2020

Juan Albion said:
Yiss

I'd take her out for some fesh end chups for sure.

highflyer · Jun 9, 2020

Gwylan said:
Indeed but that's not a concern of most Australians. In fact, he won the last election by brandishing lumps of coal and talking about how essential it was for the country's economy.

I think that concern is/was rising pretty quickly.

My belief is that the stunt with the coal may have given him the short term boost to get him over the line in the election but will come back to haunt him. In Australia, as globally, concern about climate change is only going in one direction.

(I can't think of a similar situation anywhere else, when a prime minister might have used a particularly hot topic, against their own better judgement, to stir up nationalist sentiment and win short term advantage ahead of a general election, but then ends up regretting it when the economy goes to sh*t and he still has to plough on with an action that any sane person would now see as stupid at best...Can you?).

nicko31 · Jun 9, 2020

blue-shifted said:
She has a 30 point lead because she displays clear and genuine empathy with her citizens.

More importantly, she has got the big calls right. That surely the first thing you expect from your leaders. That they are intelligent and get the best people around them. This enables you to get those decisions right. (I kind of look at Arden as kind of a Paul Barber figure, but with added humanity).

Contrast this with the complete shower of p*** we've got over here. Dogmatic, deceitful, career driven, opportunistic. We have a leadership selected not because of any ability or compassion, (the half decent ones were kicked out), the leader and cabinet we have were selected solely due to ideological fervour.

All we can is wait 4 years and learn

Audax · Jun 9, 2020

Biscuit Barrel said:
UK lock down 23rd March.
NZ lock down 25th March.

But look at the context. The UK was a lot further along the curve and a lot more exposed to inbound contamination from Italy and Spain. There's members of SAGE now coming out effectively admitting they and the government got it wrong, because they didn't have the data they needed to realise that the virus had already been spreading in the community well before the lockdown was implemented. I reckon Boris was about 2 weeks late. But I could forgive him one of those weeks if he'd gone for full lockdown on March 16th instead of fannying about with the "request" to work from home if possible (my office reacted quickly to that - the office was closed March 17th and has been closed ever since; but a lot of others ignored the advice as it wasn't mandatory).

Conversely in NZ they caught it before it went wild, and prevented any further imports. They've also done far better than the UK in handling the small number of inbound flights (proper quarantine early, backed by testing etc).

colinz said:
IMO Australia has done a better job than NZ.
It's achieved similar per capita results despite the more difficult geographical logistics, and shutting down less of it's industry.

Thankfully when things go tits up down here economically, we have an escape hatch called Australia.

At the national leadership level, I strongly disagree. Morrison stumbled from one blunder to another and was rescued by the states. He's managed to keep his feet and turn it around, but his instincts early on were far more Boris than Ardern.

What I've found impressive with Ardern is she's not become bogged down in the now. She's also been looking to the future and has flagged some interesting things for NZ to look at - such as suggesting businesses look at 4 day work weeks.

Mtoto · Jun 9, 2020

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I don't disagree with most of that (albeit like most of what we all post on the Covid topic, it's speculation) but I'm guessing you've never flown into Auckland. "Auckland Airport is the largest and busiest airport in New Zealand, with over 21 million passengers in the year ended March 2019.". Compare that to Madrid: "Adolfo Suárez Madrid–Barajas Airport, Passengers 61 million ". That's a mere three fold.

Also, Madrid airport was closed on March 23, whereas the reports I read online state Auckland airport was still open then, and was not temperature screening passengers.

So there must be some other reason for their good fortune. I have nothing useful to suggest. It's weird.

A mere three-fold is one way of putting it. A massive 200pc more passengers is another. Personally feel that it's quite a big difference, not least when you consider that there will likely be a similarly higher number of people working at Madrid airport, and taking whatever they pick up from the passengers back to their communities at the end of every shift.

Biscuit Barrel · Jun 9, 2020

Audax said:
But look at the context. The UK was a lot further along the curve and a lot more exposed to inbound contamination from Italy and Spain. There's members of SAGE now coming out effectively admitting they and the government got it wrong, because they didn't have the data they needed to realise that the virus had already been spreading in the community well before the lockdown was implemented. I reckon Boris was about 2 weeks late. But I could forgive him one of those weeks if he'd gone for full lockdown on March 16th instead of fannying about with the "request" to work from home if possible (my office reacted quickly to that - the office was closed March 17th and has been closed ever since; but a lot of others ignored the advice as it wasn't mandatory).

Conversely in NZ they caught it before it went wild, and prevented any further imports. They've also done far better than the UK in handling the small number of inbound flights (proper quarantine early, backed by testing etc).

At the national leadership level, I strongly disagree. Morrison stumbled from one blunder to another and was rescued by the states. He's managed to keep his feet and turn it around, but his instincts early on were far more Boris than Ardern.

What I've found impressive with Ardern is she's not become bogged down in the now. She's also been looking to the future and has flagged some interesting things for NZ to look at - such as suggesting businesses look at 4 day work weeks.

I get your points, but I just can't agree with this Arden love in.

I just can't get away from the issue that it is far, far easier to control a contagious disease in a country like NZ. It is roughly the same size as the UK with a total population half of London's. One third of the population live in one city. That means that the remaining 3 million people are living in a country the same size as England, Scotland and Wales.

In the UK we are trying very hard to stay 2 meters apart from other people. In NZ it is very difficult to get within 2 miles of the next person.

If you are giving Arden credit for the way she has handled Covid 19, perhaps we should all be praising Boris for only 13 Covid deaths in Guernsey and only 24 deaths on the Isle of Man?

Westdene Seagull · Jun 9, 2020

Billy the Fish said:
You can't argue with her record but I said a while back that NZ was one of the easier countries to protect. In football terms she's kept her composure and buried a tap in.

Tiny population, 4 hours flight to the nearest country, 8 hours to the next nearest, literally on the edge of the world.

It's all about being prepared to make the decision though - regardless of other factors. You're also being a bit unfair just to dismiss how well she handled the mass shooting - if only Trump could carry out such far reaching reforms at all let alone in such a short timescale and with the blessing of the voters.

Audax · Jun 9, 2020

Biscuit Barrel said:
I get your points, but I just can't agree with this Arden love in.

I just can't get away from the issue that it is far, far easier to control a contagious disease in a country like NZ. It is roughly the same size as the UK with a total population half of London's. One third of the population live in one city. That means that the remaining 3 million people are living in a country the same size as England, Scotland and Wales.

In the UK we are trying very hard to stay 2 meters apart from other people. In NZ it is very difficult to get within 2 miles of the next person.

If you are giving Arden credit for the way she has handled Covid 19, perhaps we should all be praising Boris for only 13 Covid deaths in Guernsey and only 24 deaths on the Isle of Man?

1) Boris has zero say on the Isle of Man. IoM is self-governing (with the exception of defence) and not subject to the UK government (only the Queen). IoM's per capita death rate is actually very poor, given they have a small population. Similar story for Guernsey in terms of being self governing.

2) If Ardern had handled the pandemic identically in NZ as it has been handled here, they would be in a far worse position than they currently are. Yes, NZ is ideally situated to ride out things with the lowest risk, but at the same time she didn't fiddle around for weeks before acting. The UK was at high risk and we knew it; the UK had Italy and Spain to learn from and didn't; end result, the UK has a per capita death rate that does not compare well. Unlike Boris, Ardern took decisive action early in their curve, and carried the country with her. That's something that Boris cannot and will not be able to claim (nor his government). There's a very good reason why Ardern and her government command such a strong position in polls, while Boris and his government have lost their commanding lead during the pandemic.

Edit to add 1: Boris' 5-level covid-19 alert system is 'borrowed' from NZ (among others). We don't have a viable contact tracing app yet (nor a definitive launch date for it), the build up of the track and trace system has been chaotic and poorly managed (massive over-recruitment, for example). The one area I can happily say that our government has done reasonably well is in supporting workers who can't work as a result of the lockdown. Sunak has done a decent job. Not perfect, but decent.If, as I hope, there is a full public inquiry once everything settles down, I'm pretty certain that it will come out that Boris (well, Cummings) was actually considering letting the virus run to build up "herd immunity" without using a vaccine. I'm convinced that was one part of what led to the delays in getting our lockdown in place.

Edit to add 2: I'm also convinced the virus was circulating in the community here in the UK for several weeks before the government woke up to that fact. Pretty sure I've had it (I had mild but clear symptoms on March 16th, and an on/off recurring cough / upper chest pains for several weeks after that). Unfortunately I've never been tested (thanks to our government being so slow to prioritise being able to test at scale), so I don't know for sure. But, if that was covid-19 I had, it was my son who passed it to me (he had identical symptoms a week before I did, and my wife a couple of days before I did). He can only have picked it up at nursery or one of his other kids things he was doing pre-lockdown (tiddlers football, swimming). That would point to there being community transmission in Uckfield before our government was admitting that we had community transmission.

There's also some evidence yet to be fully investigated that the first UK death from Covid-19 was late Jan / early Feb. Not late Feb as is currently claimed by Govt.

Biscuit Barrel · Jun 9, 2020

Audax said:
1) Boris has zero say on the Isle of Man. IoM is self-governing (with the exception of defence) and not subject to the UK government (only the Queen). IoM's per capita death rate is actually very poor, given they have a small population. Similar story for Guernsey in terms of being self governing.

2) If Ardern had handled the pandemic identically in NZ as it has been handled here, they would be in a far worse position than they currently are. Yes, NZ is ideally situated to ride out things with the lowest risk, but at the same time she didn't fiddle around for weeks before acting. The UK was at high risk and we knew it; the UK had Italy and Spain to learn from and didn't; end result, the UK has a per capita death rate that does not compare well. Unlike Boris, Ardern took decisive action early in their curve, and carried the country with her. That's something that Boris cannot and will not be able to claim (nor his government). There's a very good reason why Ardern and her government command such a strong position in polls, while Boris and his government have lost their commanding lead during the pandemic.

Edit to add 1: Boris' 5-level covid-19 alert system is 'borrowed' from NZ (among others). We don't have a viable contact tracing app yet (nor a definitive launch date for it), the build up of the track and trace system has been chaotic and poorly managed (massive over-recruitment, for example). The one area I can happily say that our government has done reasonably well is in supporting workers who can't work as a result of the lockdown. Sunak has done a decent job. Not perfect, but decent.If, as I hope, there is a full public inquiry once everything settles down, I'm pretty certain that it will come out that Boris (well, Cummings) was actually considering letting the virus run to build up "herd immunity" without using a vaccine. I'm convinced that was one part of what led to the delays in getting our lockdown in place.

Edit to add 2: I'm also convinced the virus was circulating in the community here in the UK for several weeks before the government woke up to that fact. Pretty sure I've had it (I had mild but clear symptoms on March 16th, and an on/off recurring cough / upper chest pains for several weeks after that). Unfortunately I've never been tested (thanks to our government being so slow to prioritise being able to test at scale), so I don't know for sure. But, if that was covid-19 I had, it was my son who passed it to me (he had identical symptoms a week before I did, and my wife a couple of days before I did). He can only have picked it up at nursery or one of his other kids things he was doing pre-lockdown (tiddlers football, swimming). That would point to there being community transmission in Uckfield before our government was admitting that we had community transmission.

There's also some evidence yet to be fully investigated that the first UK death from Covid-19 was late Jan / early Feb. Not late Feb as is currently claimed by Govt.

I really appreciate your very detailed reply. I am not saying that the UK government has done a good job, far from it. I just think that Arden had a piss easy job of keeping her very isolated and sparsely populated country safe and that is why I can not get involved with your JA fan club.

I also believe that Covid 19 was in the UK long before the government took action. I believe that it was here even before anyone knew that Covid 19 even existed. I have read reports of people arriving from China in November who are convinced they caught whilst in Asia. I really believe that Covid 19 has been in this country since November and this may go some way (not all) to explaining why there has been so many deaths.

OzMike · Jun 10, 2020

Showed her willingness to be a totally political animal during the shooting of the muslins by the gunman. By adopting to wear the Muslim style headgear as a way if appeasement, she was out to score political points.
Had she ever worn headgear of this style and fashion before ? I very much doubt it.
It was a very unfortunate incident and I thought it was demeaned more by choosing to do this and using it as a political play.

colinz · Jun 10, 2020

What I've found impressive with Ardern is she's not become bogged down in the now. She's also been looking to the future and has flagged some interesting things for NZ to look at - such as suggesting businesses look at 4 day work weeks.

That'll help to make the NZ economy competitive post Covid.

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