[Football] Sven's selection conudrum, can we solve it?

Doc Lynam · May 4, 2020

Given the quality of the players under Sven's time should he have played 3 at the back?

Watched an interview with Lampard and he spoke about him and SG constantly getting out numbered in midfield.

So three at the back build the team around Scholes, Beckham at wingback?

---------------------------------------GK

------------------------G. Nev Terry Ferd

----------------Becks--------------------------------------Cole

-----------------------------------Scholes

----------------------------Lamp-------------J. Cole

--------------------------------------SG

-------------------------------------Owen

stewart12 · May 4, 2020

I think this may have been tried. I definitely remember a 5 man midfield with Beckham as a sort of Pirlo type defensive midfielder- don't think it worked (it may have been a 4-5-1 thinking about it)

we had enough top level centre backs at the time to play 3 of them and Ferdinand would have been a terrific sweeper. Perhaps Neville could have been a RWB and move Beckham into the midfield 3. Alternatively keep Beckham out wide and personally I'd have Hargreaves or Carrick in that midfield ahead of Joe Cole (who could be a good impact sub)

Weststander · May 4, 2020

———————-Nancy Dell’Olio Dellaglio

Ulrika Jonssen — Faria Alam —- Escort A — Escort B

That’s the defence sorted.

Swansman · May 4, 2020

Three defenders was very uncommon everywhere during Svennis reign and I'm fairly certain most of the English players had never or very rarely played with three defenders, which is a huge adjustment in comparison to playing with two cbs.

Sven was one of the many Swedish managers HEAVILY influenced by Bob Houghton & Roy Hodgson, he used 4-4-2 everywhere only with the occasional 4-5-1.

beorhthelm · May 4, 2020

Scholes and Gerrard wrong way round. yes, Becks would be a decent winback as he could tackle resonably well.

as i recall the problem was they got too easily caught out of possesion because all the midfield would get drawn up field. the solution would have been Barry or Hargreaves and accept you cant play 4/5 attacking midfielders.

stewart12 · May 4, 2020

not convinced about Owen as a lone striker either. He always played best alongside a target man (e.g Heskey)

Doc Lynam · May 4, 2020

stewart12 said:
not convinced about Owen as a lone striker either. He always played best alongside a target man (e.g Heskey)

With more in midfield you shouldn’t need high balls and can play him down the channels, perfect for his game getting in behind and finding channels to run.

Weststander · May 4, 2020

beorhthelm said:
Scholes and Gerrard wrong way round. yes, Becks would be a decent winback as he could tackle resonably well.

as i recall the problem was they got too easily caught out of possesion because all the midfield would get drawn up field. the solution would have been Barry or Hargreaves and accept you cant play 4/5 attacking midfielders.

imho Ledley King was the best DM of the Sven years, a class act in that role. Sadly always carrying an injury.

Doc Lynam · May 4, 2020

beorhthelm said:
Scholes and Gerrard wrong way round. yes, Becks would be a decent winback as he could tackle resonably well.

as i recall the problem was they got too easily caught out of possesion because all the midfield would get drawn up field. the solution would have been Barry or Hargreaves and accept you cant play 4/5 attacking midfielders.

Id want Scholes to build up the play from the defenders, he’s the brains of the outfit. Didn’t he do the same at MU?

As a side question, how many of these players were “world class”?

Icy Gull · May 4, 2020

Up there with the most over rated managers of all time

Swansman · May 4, 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy5yhdX7300

Interesting watch, the initial explanation of the tactics is what Svennis did everywhere.

beorhthelm · May 4, 2020

Doc Lynam said:
Id want Scholes to build up the play from the defenders, he’s the brains of the outfit. Didn’t he do the same at MU?

not deep as i remember, and had Keane or other substantial midfielder along side him. Scholes there would give no protection to the defense and a lot of free kicks.

Mellotron · May 4, 2020

Beckham was one of the slowest wingers in top level football - compensated of course by phenomenal technique and a good work rate. Wingbacks need to be quick.

I understand though that the quandary - and Sven's biggest failure as England boss imo - was the lazy attitude towards our midfield, which could have been one of the best in the World, if arranged appropriately.

MattBackHome · May 4, 2020

My 2006 starting XI:

Seaman
Neville Ferdinand Terry Cole
Hargreaves
Becks Lamps Downing
Rooney Crouch

Sorry no room for Stevie G. Playing a diamond as was the mode.

Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ · May 4, 2020

The Crouch Bot doing the lay offs for Lamps, Stevie and Scholsey

............................ Calamity .............................

.......... Terry .... Ferdinand .... Campbell ..........

Beckham ............ Hargreaves ................Cole

........... Scholes ..... Gerrard .... Lampard ........

............................... Crouch .............................

blue-shifted · May 4, 2020

Probably the key to the selection problem is to play only 1 of Scholes, Lampard or Gerrard.

Anyone selecting in 2020, should ignore the temptation to use 2020 tactics and formations. 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1, were the most prevalent.

--------------------Seaman
G Neville - Ferdinand - Terry - A Cole
Beckham - Hargreaves - Gerrard - J Cole
---------------Rooney - Owen

albionfan37 · May 4, 2020

Doc Lynam said:
Given the quality of the players under Sven's time should he have played 3 at the back?

Watched an interview with Lampard and he spoke about him and SG constantly getting out numbered in midfield.

So three at the back build the team around Scholes, Beckham at wingback?

---------------------------------------GK

------------------------G. Nev Terry Ferd

----------------Becks--------------------------------------Cole

-----------------------------------Scholes

----------------------------Lamp-------------J. Cole

--------------------------------------SG

-------------------------------------Owen

Swap scholes and gerrard

Swansman · May 4, 2020

Icy Gull said:
Up there with the most over rated managers of all time

He had a very successful career before the England job though.

Winning the UEFA Cup in 1982, with only part time footballers, after beating the Bundesliga winning Hamburg team (4-0) that would go on to win the Champions League (well, the European cup) the next season is one of the greatest accomplishments in modern football. As far as I know its the only semi-professional team to win a big cup in Europe since the UEFA Cup started in 1971.

His results with England were pretty average - one hand he made some weird decisions and had a good generation, on the other hand England had some poor luck in shootouts/ronaldinho-events during his years and a lot of managers have been worse.

His failure in the Premier League/Championship came as no surprise to me though. A big part of his success in Portugal and Italy was that he brought something they had never seen: English football. Zonal defending, 4-4-2, the extremely detailed and systematic tactics of Roy Hodgson & Bob Houghton. Very few Italian/Portuguese sides knew how to deal with it. In England however, it was household knowledge and that advantage was lost.

Seasidesage · May 4, 2020

Germans played with a sweeper for about 30 years before this, no reason why we couldn't have?

Seaman

Terry Ferdinand King

Beckham Lampard Hargreaves Gerrard A. Cole

Scholes

Rooney

A lot of interchanging but you do have as many of our best players on the pitch as possible. This team has clear weaknesses but it would be a handful for anyone attacking.

Weststander · May 4, 2020

Doc Lynam said:
Id want Scholes to build up the play from the defenders, he’s the brains of the outfit. Didn’t he do the same at MU?

As a side question, how many of these players were “world class”?

Ashley Cole. In any era he would've fitted into the first eleven of Real Madrid, Barca, Juve or AC Milan. A rarity, he could shut out Ronaldo and did.

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[Football] Sven's selection conudrum, can we solve it?

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