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Aviation industry and Covid-19



Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,575
Back in Sussex
Twenty years after Richard Branson launched a low-cost Australian airline, then called Virgin Blue, the carrier is reported to have gone into voluntary administration.

Virgin Australia, which has a network of domestic and international flight, is around A$5bn (£2.55bn) in debt.

As a result of the coronavirus pandemic, which has seen passenger numbers collapse, the carrier applied for a A$1.4bn (£715m) bail-out from the Australian government – which was refused.

MORE >>> https://www.independent.co.uk/trave...line-sir-richard-branson-latest-a9473581.html
 




The Wizard

Well-known member
Jul 2, 2009
18,383
I’m not sure if I’m being thick, but how do any of these airlines make money? All I ever seem to see is airlines getting billions in loans, being bailed out and the lark surely once you are a billion pound in debt you should think alright maybe this isn’t working? :lolol:
 




Wozza

Shite Supporter
Jul 6, 2003
23,584
Online
Owners (according to Wiki):
Etihad Airways (20.94%)
Singapore Airlines (20.09%)
Nanshan Group (19.98%)
HNA Group (19.82%)
Virgin Group (10.42%)
 




Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,575
Back in Sussex
I’m not sure if I’m being thick, but how do any of these airlines make money? All I ever seem to see is airlines getting billions in loans, being bailed out and the lark surely once you are a billion pound in debt you should think alright maybe this isn’t working? :lolol:

Wafer thin margins I assume, given most of the market has little loyalty to any provider and will look to pay the cheapest price for the journey they wish to make.
 


Barham's tash

Well-known member
Jun 8, 2013
3,612
Rayners Lane
Owners (according to Wiki):
Etihad Airways (20.94%)
Singapore Airlines (20.09%)
Nanshan Group (19.98%)
HNA Group (19.82%)
Virgin Group (10.42%)

This is how he makes his money or the parent group make returns. Establish airline, usually with a single partnership.

Create brand awareness, capture market share, make slim profits but then sell slugs of the business on to other airlines often billed as strategic alliances to gain access to code shares etc but ultimately it’s the only way to make positive returns.

Ultimately if it goes tits up this time round Virgin Group will already have made its money.
 






Rugrat

Well-known member
Mar 13, 2011
10,212
Seaford
Wafer thin margins I assume, given most of the market has little loyalty to any provider and will look to pay the cheapest price for the journey they wish to make.

Recently airlines (in general) have been making good money but I assume they then use that profit to either replace more aircraft, make other investments and pay larger shareholder dividends. They look at their debt and see that they can afford to pay the interest payments and so no problem. Rightly or wrongly some make little provision for their revenue stream being cut off entirely
 










Springal

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2005
23,708
GOSBTS
Norwegian all but gone now

Just a bodge isn't it? Close the subsidiaries that hire the pilots, crew etc to easily get rid of the staff - but keep the airline itself going, intact and propped up by Norwegian government?

Then re-hire when things settle down
 








nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,522
Gods country fortnightly
Will aviation ever the same again? Its a long way back
 


Springal

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2005
23,708
GOSBTS
Lufthansa on the verge of bankruptcy without government bailout - wouldn’t happen in Germany
 


Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
Lufthansa on the verge of bankruptcy without government bailout - wouldn’t happen in Germany

They will get one. I doubt that there is a major airline that will survive without a bailout

When this is over will running an airline in the right sector be a massive business opportunity or a road to ruin? I am going for the former. Hard to know if the end of the lockdown will make people want to travel even more than they did before it..finances permitting.
 




mikeyjh

Well-known member
Dec 17, 2008
4,473
Llanymawddwy
Will aviation ever the same again? Its a long way back

It will be a long, long time - Even when demand starts coming back, it will take months or years for airlines to be back up to speed, Lufthansa are suggesting demand levels to return in 2023, even that's optimistic I think. From a business travel perspective (biz travel essentially pays for airlines), every organisation on the planet is going to look at how they coped during this crisis without travelling and reflect that it's something they need to do less.
 


Springal

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2005
23,708
GOSBTS
Virgin Australia reportedly enter voluntary administration

A lot of airlines will decommission older planes that probably still had a few years left in them but the whole economics will have changed.
That will mean reduced capacity all round at least.
 



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