Where is the anti lockdown campaign?

Weststander · Apr 16, 2020

It’s getting boring isn’t it, one of my kids is getting bored. I miss all the little outside niceties eg buying a coffee, getting garden bits, the cinema.

But the lockdown is literally saving the lives of countless thousands of Brits who deserve to live. For those of us who feel healthy and ‘invincible’, we owe it to them.

With little scientific knowledge myself, I’ll rely on the advice of Whitty, Vallance and @HWT.

Eeyore · Apr 16, 2020

beorhthelm said:
it'll be coming soon, once europe starts to relax and US, the media will be expecting us to do so to and demand a date its all over.

There lays a thousand words. **** the media.

I suppose Rupert will make the decision.

Beach Hut · Apr 16, 2020

kingcole said:
Get the kids back to school a week Monday - make it voluntary. The exam years will already be gone and with those who don’t wish to attend, social distancing will be easier (not saying it will be easy, just easier).The schools mean non essential businesses can return. We have all learnt a lot about social distancing these past weeks and we can use these new skills in arenas other than Tesco.

So why should people who work in schools now put themselves at risk as well as those already still working in risk areas ?

dazzer6666 · Apr 16, 2020

kingcole said:
Our original plan was herd immunity. It became clear quite fast that this route would overwhelm the NHS so we went into lockdown, to push back the peak, flatten the curve and protect the NHS so it could prepare for a spike.

We are now at the stage where numbers are falling, quite quickly. The NHS has done a great job, especially with the speed the new hospitals got built and there is capacity. 2 weeks ago I was proud to see how our country could build a 4000 bed hospital in a matter of days. Today it has a couple of dozen patients.

We MUST give consideration to the economy. The V shaped recovery will be a pipe dream if we don’t act soon. Yes, there will be a recovery when lockdown if lifted, but the failed businesses cannot recovery. The lockdown must end before they fail. The excellent measures put in place will ensure many won’t fail that otherwise would have but if this continues, more will fail and more will die from symptoms not directly related to Covid-19.

Maybe today isn’t the day to announce an easing, but it sure ain’t another 3 weeks before a new annoucement.

Get the kids back to school a week Monday - make it voluntary. The exam years will already be gone and with those who don’t wish to attend, social distancing will be easier (not saying it will be easy, just easier).

The schools mean non essential businesses can return. We have all learnt a lot about social distancing these past weeks and we can use these new skills in arenas other than Tesco.

If you need to buy a car, some plants for the garden or a new pair of undies, you should be able to visit a shop/showroom/garden centre in the same responsible way that we buy our groceries.

By making this happen from a week Monday we have only lost 2 weeks in addition to the 2 week Easter holiday. Kids will catch up, businesses will have hope and mental illness will be averted.

We can then monitor the effectiveness and the numbers with a view to opening restaurants, bars and easing the restrictive travel guidance later in May.

I fear mass gatherings like football may need to wait a lot longer.

Through all of this the old and the vulnerable must continue to stay isolated until the Risk recedes further. Not only will this method offer hope, save business and improve the mental health and save 10’s of 1000’s of jobs, it will mean the fittest get some exposure which is turn will go some way to providing the herd immunity. Although a vaccine for immunity is of course the goal, this may take months, possibly years and even then may not work.

Edit. Even the dovish NY Governor is currently talking about plans to open some businesses, and they are behind us.

Agree with some of what you say and herd immunity plus management of the caseload is the only real option at the moment but.........if you were a teacher, maybe in your 50s and perhaps with underlying issues or with a young family of your own, do you want to go back to a class full of healthy-looking but asymptomatic virus-carrying kids who have no real clue about personal hygiene ? Would need to be voluntary for the teachers as well as kids. PPE for teachers too perhaps ? Also, restaurants are more likely to spread than football grounds....plenty of research suggesting the virus doesn't travel at all well outdoors. I can't see pubs and restaurants opening for a while yet (other than as takeaways)

I think another 3 weeks is sensible - what I'd expect though, during that 3 weeks is a progressive explanation of the plan to relax the lockdown, so when the 3 weeks are up everyone is 100% clear on what to expect and when, with very clear guidance on what we can and can't do (learning the lessons from the original move towards lockdown where there was some ambiguity)

Bold Seagull · Apr 16, 2020

One thing the government got spot on, before the lock down they said if they bought it in too early that lock down fatigue might set in after 2 or 3 weeks and it wouldn't be as effective.

Right now, perplexingly in some respects given many other aspects of the government's handling that could and should come under scrutiny, the mainstream press is simply obsessed with the exist strategy and you can feel the pressure building when at this point it shouldn't be. I don't for a second think a Tory government in particular is keen to sacrifice the economy anyone than it needs to. I think we're safe in the knowledge that they will get it back going as soon as they think is feasible, and may well be too early.

I think Raab, Vallance and Whitty got it right today, they won't really know what the exit strategy of lock down will be until the science and data tells them what industries can go back to work, what size gatherings etc. maybe acceptable, what kind of balance will need to be struck. It's clearly an evolving picture. Yes, France and Italy are relaxing SOME measures, but the press seems to have collectively forgotten we are 2 weeks or so behind their peaks.

I think the government is getting off some aspects scott-free with this obsession with the lock-down.

Raleigh Chopper · Apr 16, 2020

I would have thought that the day after it was announced that a pregnant nurse has died that even the most belligerent of people would now think twice about going out and social distancing.
Not much gets to me but that did and I have struggled to get it out of my mind.
Not to mention all the front line people going to work, untested and ill equipped putting their life on the line.
In my opinion this is the most disrespectful thread I have seen on NSC.
I take it Goldstone will not be banging his saucepan this evening.

Bold Seagull · Apr 16, 2020

Beach Hut said:
So why should people who work in schools now put themselves at risk as well as those already still working in risk areas ?

Many schools have still been open though this, and many staff still working, whether on rotas with other staff due to reduced numbers, but many have still been working.

The balance of course is likely risk vs benefit to the children and families. If the science indicates that the spread of the virus is greatly reduced, then like delivery drivers, emergency staff, supermarket staff, and everyone else working, then teachers maybe asked that the risk is sufficiently reduced in order to get kids back into school. I don't really see a problem with this if the data and science suggest this is a reasonable thing to do.

Dick Swiveller · Apr 16, 2020

dazzer6666 said:

I keep seeing this reaction and it bemuses me. Given the OP has been banned for posting EDL lies as well as starting threads about tokenism when a black woman or disabled woman gets a job, if we assume it is fishing then can someone explain to me how posting something bigoted in order to get a reaction is different than posting it and meaning it? If so, how far is the boundary? Is it OK for me to engage in hate crimes if I cross my fingers?

Westdene Seagull · Apr 16, 2020

Dick Swiveller said:
I keep seeing this reaction and it bemuses me. Given the OP has been banned for posting EDL lies as well as starting threads about tokenism when a black woman or disabled woman gets a job, if we assume it is fishing then can someone explain to me how posting something bigoted in order to get a reaction is different than posting it and meaning it? If so, how far is the boundary? Is it OK for me to engage in hate crimes if I cross my fingers?

I think the key to showing the OP as fishing is that he lit the blue touchpaper and hasn't commented since ..... despite his little green light being on all the time ( bit of a give away ! ).

BN41Albion · Apr 16, 2020

Bold Seagull said:
Many schools have still been open though this, and many staff still working, whether on rotas with other staff due to reduced numbers, but many have still been working.

The balance of course is likely risk vs benefit to the children and families. If the science indicates that the spread of the virus is greatly reduced, then like delivery drivers, emergency staff, supermarket staff, and everyone else working, then teachers maybe asked that the risk is sufficiently reduced in order to get kids back into school. I don't really see a problem with this if the data and science suggest this is a reasonable thing to do.

There's a huge difference between a handful of key worker's kids being in school - and numbers in most schools really are a handful - and all pupils being in. Huge. Classrooms are often small and cramped, social distancing would be impossible, kids are crap at self hygiene in general unless constantly reminded... Schools going back should be very carefully managed. God knows how, but Imo they really should stay closed until after May half term. Maybe some staggered opening before that, I hope not, but we'll see.

Beach Hut · Apr 16, 2020

Bold Seagull said:
Many schools have still been open though this, and many staff still working, whether on rotas with other staff due to reduced numbers, but many have still been working.

The balance of course is likely risk vs benefit to the children and families. If the science indicates that the spread of the virus is greatly reduced, then like delivery drivers, emergency staff, supermarket staff, and everyone else working, then teachers maybe asked that the risk is sufficiently reduced in order to get kids back into school. I don't really see a problem with this if the data and science suggest this is a reasonable thing to do.

I am aware of this as my wife has worked over easter in a school and agree on science directing the thinking method

Bakero · Apr 16, 2020

Dick Swiveller said:
I keep seeing this reaction and it bemuses me. Given the OP has been banned for posting EDL lies as well as starting threads about tokenism when a black woman or disabled woman gets a job, if we assume it is fishing then can someone explain to me how posting something bigoted in order to get a reaction is different than posting it and meaning it? If so, how far is the boundary? Is it OK for me to engage in hate crimes if I cross my fingers?

Westdene Seagull said:
I think the key to showing the OP as fishing is that he lit the blue touchpaper and hasn't commented since ..... despite his little green light being on all the time ( bit of a give away ! ).

I'd say it's a little of both. A bigoted nause on a wind-up mission.

Dick Swiveller · Apr 16, 2020

Westdene Seagull said:
I think the key to showing the OP as fishing is that he lit the blue touchpaper and hasn't commented since ..... despite his little green light being on all the time ( bit of a give away ! ).

Oh I get that. I just don't see why some people just ignore it because it is fishing. Still designed to cause distress.

Mike Small · Apr 16, 2020

BN41Albion said:
There's a huge difference between a handful of key worker's kids being in school - and numbers in most schools really are a handful - and all pupils being in. Huge. Classrooms are often small and cramped, social distancing would be impossible, kids are crap at self hygiene in general unless constantly reminded... Schools going back should be very carefully managed. God knows how, but Imo they really should stay closed until after May half term. Maybe some staggered opening before that, I hope not, but we'll see.

Those 'experts' who said schools should open with social distancing have not been into 99.9% of schools in this country. Incredible recommendation.

Weststander · Apr 16, 2020

Bakero said:
I'd say it's a little of both. A bigoted nause on a wind-up mission.

This.

He’s probably enjoyed the reaction, it kills a few lockdown hours.

BUT, he’s angry about the lockdown and its extension.

Machiavelli · Apr 16, 2020

Bold Seagull said:
One thing the government got spot on, before the lock down they said if they bought it in too early that lock down fatigue might set in after 2 or 3 weeks and it wouldn't be as effective.

Right now, perplexingly in some respects given many other aspects of the government's handling that could and should come under scrutiny, the mainstream press is simply obsessed with the exist strategy and you can feel the pressure building when at this point it shouldn't be. I don't for a second think a Tory government in particular is keen to sacrifice the economy anyone than it needs to. I think we're safe in the knowledge that they will get it back going as soon as they think is feasible, and may well be too early.

I think Raab, Vallance and Whitty got it right today, they won't really know what the exit strategy of lock down will be until the science and data tells them what industries can go back to work, what size gatherings etc. maybe acceptable, what kind of balance will need to be struck. It's clearly an evolving picture. Yes, France and Italy are relaxing SOME measures, but the press seems to have collectively forgotten we are 2 weeks or so behind their peaks.

I think the government is getting off some aspects scott-free with this obsession with the lock-down.

BN41Albion · Apr 16, 2020

Mike Small said:
Those 'experts' who said schools should open with social distancing have not been into 99.9% of schools in this country. Incredible recommendation.

Yep. Absolutely impossible with all children in in the vast majority of schools, and a huge potential for the virus to spread quickly through families.

Anyone saying schools need to be open first/should be reopening as soon as to allow people to go back to work, clearly have not been into a school in a lot time, as you say

darkwolf666 · Apr 16, 2020

goldstone said:
I was fundamentally opposed to the original, and I'm vehemently opposed to the 3 week extension. Where is the campaign to voice the objections of sensible free-thinking people to these draconian regulations? Or is the entire population meekly following along like a flock of scared sheep? If this is allowed to continue unopposed I can see the scenario in a few years time when there's flu virus and the government says "let's have another lockdown. It's easy. No one objected last time". What should have happened was that the elderly and at-risk should have self-isolated and the rest of us continued with our lives as close to normal as is possible. Instead of that the entire population is being virtually imprisoned, and not a bleat of complaint from anyone.

I have to admit, I haven’t read the six pages of comments that have followed your OP, but can I just say **** off you insensitive ****! Just in case no-one else has...

Triggaaar · Apr 16, 2020

kingcole said:
Not only will this method offer hope, save business and improve the mental health and save 10’s of 1000’s of jobs, it will mean the fittest get some exposure which is turn will go some way to providing the herd immunity.

I think you make a lot of valid points, but I don't agree with the belief that the fittest will go some way to providing herd immunity. If the social distancing you've described works well, then we shouldn't have too many infections. And even if we get more than you're hoping, it still wouldn't be enough to make any noticeable progress towards herd immunity.

Still, it would be good if the government felt able to relax the rules for some in the not too distant future.

rogersix · Apr 16, 2020

darkwolf666 said:
I have to admit, I haven’t read the six pages of comments that have followed your OP, but can I just say **** off you insensitive ****! Just in case no-one else has...

he's very unhappy... again/still

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