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  1. #61
    Resident pedant Triggaaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkwolf666 View Post
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    Hhmm, think we've been here before with Israel...
    I assume that's a general 'we', rather than you and me?

    You should be able to be against Israel's decisions without being antisemitic, but it is obviously more delicate due to the history of oppression that Jewish people have faced.
    Thank you Chris, you're a legend.

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    • #62
      Resident pedant Triggaaar's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Thunder Bolt View Post
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      Swine flu started in Mexico but I don’t remember anyone saying they’d never eat tortillas or chilli con carne ever again.
      Although I agree with your principle, Mexico didn't continuously lie about the virus, leading to the deaths of many thousands of people around the world, and Swine flu didn't crash the world economy and lead to us all being locked up.
      Thank you Chris, you're a legend.
    • #63
      Numpty Thunder Bolt's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Triggaaar View Post
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      Although I agree with your principle, Mexico didn't continuously lie about the virus, leading to the deaths of many thousands of people around the world, and Swine flu didn't crash the world economy and lead to us all being locked up.
      It also mainly affected the under 30s.
      Quote Originally Posted by brighton bluenose View Post
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      NSC at its very best ~ a post based on assumption on a matter the poster hasn't got a clue about!!
      The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members. Mahatma Gandhi
    • #64
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      Quote Originally Posted by Triggaaar View Post
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      I assume that's a general 'we', rather than you and me?

      You should be able to be against Israel's decisions without being antisemitic, but it is obviously more delicate due to the history of oppression that Jewish people have faced.
      That was indeed the Royal we! We've not had any conversations about the Israel situation, but was an indication, as you were saying that criticism of the Chinese government doesn't make you anti-Chinese, in the same way as criticism of the Israeli state doesn't make you anti-Semitic...
    • #65
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      Quote Originally Posted by Guinness Boy View Post
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      MPs find China "misled the world from outset"

      https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...cid=spartanntp
      I trust most of us knew that already, but it's reassuring to see that MPs are onto it as well.
      Thank you Chris, you're a legend.
    • #66

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      Quote Originally Posted by NorthstandRacoon View Post
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      I'm not ranting mate, just intrigued to see what others opinions are, it's clear we disagree though about China's handling of the crisis. They were warned, many times previously, that a pandemic of a virus could happen at any stage, but their desire to eat weird things overcame their common sense and this is where we are.

      No, I don't think it was at local level, I seem to remember their Government making out like it was all controlled and everything was going to be ok, unless local to the source.

      I'm not the sort to start delving into tiny details on Chinese components etc but I will avoid food, products blatantly made in China etc as much as I can. It'll be impossible to completely avoid it. I'm sure I change back once this all blows over, but currently, that's my feeling.
      To be honest mate I'm bloody fuming. I've lost my livelihood because of this shit storm. My wife is at risk because she is one of the 1.5 million vulnerable. Shopping is an absolute nightmare because we have to rely on deliveries. Try getting that done. This doesn't mean I'm xenophobic it means I'm bloody angry!
      They were white.
    • #67
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      Quote Originally Posted by melias shoes View Post
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      To be honest mate I'm bloody fuming. I've lost my livelihood because of this shit storm. My wife is at risk because she is one of the 1.5 million vulnerable. Shopping is an absolute nightmare because we have to rely on deliveries. Try getting that done. This doesn't mean I'm xenophobic it means I'm bloody angry!
      Unfortunately for you, you've shown yourself to be both angry and xenophobic on here for far too long.
      That said, I'm sorry to hear of your new circumstances, and hope that the policy framework that emerges doesn't make your bad situation even worse.
    • #68
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      Quote Originally Posted by melias shoes View Post
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      To be honest mate I'm bloody fuming. I've lost my livelihood because of this shit storm. My wife is at risk because she is one of the 1.5 million vulnerable. Shopping is an absolute nightmare because we have to rely on deliveries. Try getting that done. This doesn't mean I'm xenophobic it means I'm bloody angry!
      And I feel your anger mate, I'm very worried about mine also as I work in Aviation, it's currently at a standstill.

      For me, this is all because a country, in this case China, didn't follow advice by scientist and seem to think lying and trying to cover this shitstorm up would make it ok. Doesn't make me Xenophobic or racist as some divs have suggested on here. I hope you get through this all in a positive light when it ends.
    • #69
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      Quote Originally Posted by Guinness Boy View Post
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      In response to other points on this thread though, having lived in Taiwan for over three years and studied a fair bit of recent Chinese history to understand the context of how the place I was living in came to be that way, there are a few things people need to understand.

      Firstly, overthrow the government? Forget it. China, for geo-political reasons, needs to have a strong, dictatorial government if it is to remain as one entity. it is huge, vaster than any of us can imagine and also used to central control. From the Dynasties to the KMT to the Communists there has always been hierarchical control from a power base. The alternative is a federal system not unlike the states but where either regions or, perhaps, people (such as the Uighurs) agitate for self rule or independence. That is no more stable than today. In fact, as we briefly saw when Yugoslavia broke up, the potential for corruption, war, poverty and, yes, disease is potentially far greater.

      Secondly, I have no reason at all to hate Chinese people but the Chinese government needs to be accountable. Sanctions / boycotts / whatever will hurt the population but they may also lead to the government losing face and cracking down on poor practice, whether in research labs or wet markets. At the moment, despite the central control mentioned above, it is too easy for local party officials to turn a blind eye to things. This must be tightened up. Such action may affect people in places like Nanjing or Shenzhen but people in these cities are currently going about their business while the West eats a big shit sandwich. If nothing else deliberate future bio attacks must be discouraged as a country raised on the writings of Sun Tzu will undoubtedly be looking at us now and noting every single weakness.

      I've got Taiwanese and Chinese friends, we're on first name terms at our local Chinese restaurant and a I bloody love that area of the world and studying Chinese culture. Doing nothing would seem the obvious non-Xenophobic reaction. But I fail to see how doing nothing is an option. A slap on the wrist simply means lessons have not been learned.
      Great post, interesting points too and I agree with you sentiment re the Government etc.
    • #70
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      Quote Originally Posted by darkwolf666 View Post
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      That was indeed the Royal we! We've not had any conversations about the Israel situation, but was an indication, as you were saying that criticism of the Chinese government doesn't make you anti-Chinese, in the same way as criticism of the Israeli state doesn't make you anti-Semitic...
      Here here.

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