[Misc] Party wall question.

Herr Tubthumper · Apr 4, 2020

A neighbour has just approached me with details of a small extension he plans to build and a party wall legal document he wants me to sign, as the extension involves the shared wall. What am I supposed to do here? Get a structural engineer to look at the plans, a lawyer for the legal document?

From my lay perspective it all looks fine; am I over dramatizing things as it’s only a party wall.

Icy Gull · Apr 4, 2020

Herr Tubthumper said:
A neighbour has just approached me with details of a small extension he plans to build and a party wall legal document he wants me to sign, as the extension involves the shared wall. What am I supposed to do here? Get a structural engineer to look at the plans, a lawyer for the legal document?

From my lay perspective it all looks fine; am I over dramatizing things as it’s only a party wall.

I guess it depends how tall the extension is and how much light you will be losing. From my son’s experience, best that you get advice from an expert.

Does he have planning permission for this extension?

Weststander · Apr 4, 2020

Not regarding the party wall, but the extension, keep an eye out for the extension suddenly becoming bigger than you were told when discussions were held in good faith.

A very ‘switched-on’/crafty guy in our street tricked the two elderly neighbours either side of him, initially explaining in a really friendly manner the extension he was putting to BHCC planning. But the plans submitted and ultimate extension were significantly larger, with some loss of light and views for both neighbours.

LamieRobertson · Apr 4, 2020

I’d contact your local planning dept or something like that and ask for some advice..you sound as if you both get on ..but it’s always best to be 100% certain so it doesn’t end in tears further down the line

Herr Tubthumper · Apr 4, 2020

Icy Gull said:
I guess it depends how tall the extension is and how much light you will be losing. From my son’s experience, best that you get advice from an expert.

Does he have planning permission for this extension?

Yes. All the planning permission etc is granted. The issue isn’t about what he’s building per se. It’s about what I need to do regarding his request to make some changes to the party wall. The changes are minimal and seem appropriate but I have no idea how to proceed....if at all.

sams dad · Apr 4, 2020

In what way is the party wall being used?
Is the new extension merely being joined to the party wall, or is the shared wall being used to support steel beams or joists?
If it is the latter, your neighbour should have structural engineers drawings and calculations detailing how the party wall is being utilised.
Have the plans for the extension been passed by Building Control?
Ask to see all the relevant plans etc.
If you want independent advice from a structural engineer, or solicitor, your neighbour should pay all fees.

Herr Tubthumper · Apr 4, 2020

LamieRobertson said:
I’d contact your local planning dept or something like that and ask for some advice..you sound as if you both get on ..but it’s always best to be 100% certain so it doesn’t end in tears further down the line

I wasn’t clear in my opening post, planning has been granted. He now needs my permission to alter the party wall. I’m fine with this in principle ...but would like the appropriate professional people to look over the plans and legal doc to ensure I’m not missing something. I’m not sure who the appropriate professional people are...or if I’m overdramatising things and it’s not a big deal.

Herr Tubthumper · Apr 4, 2020

Something else which has come to mind, what happens if the build damages my property either now or over time.

Triggaaar · Apr 4, 2020

Herr Tubthumper said:
A neighbour has just approached me with details of a small extension he plans to build and a party wall legal document he wants me to sign, as the extension involves the shared wall. What am I supposed to do here? Get a structural engineer to look at the plans, a lawyer for the legal document?

From my lay perspective it all looks fine; am I over dramatizing things as it’s only a party wall.

They have to serve the notice. What chance is there that they'll damage your property? What are they having done?

You don't need a lawyer. You could get a surveyor (your neighbour would have to pay), but ideally you won't need that either.

Triggaaar · Apr 4, 2020

The Complete Badger said:
I think your options are:

1) Sign the agreement and let your neighbour crack on. It should be fine but it is a risk.
2) Don’t sign it, which will then force your neighbour to hire a surveyor to come out and inspect the wall, take photos of it etc that can be used should a dispute arise down the line. I’d do this.

If not going for option 1, you'd be better to discuss getting a surveyor with the neighbour, rather than just hoping they do it for you.

I'd prefer option 1 if possible, as I wouldn't want to give my neighbours an unnecessary bill, but if the work is complicated and could to damage your property, then you might well need a surveyor.

Herr Tubthumper · Apr 4, 2020

Triggaaar said:
They have to serve the notice. What chance is there that they'll damage your property? What are they having done?

They have served notice.
Your second question is also a question I have.
They’re building an extra floor to a previous extension.

HAILSHAM SEAGULL · Apr 4, 2020

Herr Tubthumper said:
Something else which has come to mind, what happens if the build damages my property either now or over time.

See post No 6
A lot depends on Building Regs, Planning permission is just the council agreeing to the size and design

Bodian · Apr 4, 2020

Herr Tubthumper said:
They have served notice.
Your second question is also a question I have.
They’re building an extra floor to a previous extension.

If it's something up on top of a previous extension - what are they doing to the party wall itself? We have had no end of trouble at the end of our avenue where Tesco built a plant room, affected the wall which holds all our houses up, and are now refusing to have anything to do with the wall telling us it's nothing to do with them (despite it being on their deeds as their wall). What they did was outside of the planning permissions - so I would be very wary, no matter how well you get on with them. You'll need precise details from them of exactly what they will be doing, and make sure they stick to it.

Triggaaar · Apr 4, 2020

Herr Tubthumper said:
They have served notice.

Yes I know, I'm just saying it was something they had to do.

They’re building an extra floor to a previous extension.

Ok, so they're probably not doing any foundations. What exactly are they going to do to the party wall?

I'd ask them to write you a list of exactly what they are going to do. eg, will they put a steel into the wall to support a roof or floor. Once you have that, you'll be better placed to judge the risk of damage.

Note that even without a surveyor, you can be covered if you take photos and your neighbour signs to say they are correct and there are currently no cracks etc, and that they'll put right any cracks you do get etc.

maltaseagull · Apr 4, 2020

Herr Tubthumper said:
Yes. All the planning permission etc is granted. The issue isn’t about what he’s building per se. It’s about what I need to do regarding his request to make some changes to the party wall. The changes are minimal and seem appropriate but I have no idea how to proceed....if at all.

I am no expert but would agree that you should get advice.
You never know, the party wall issue might affect a future sale.

Herr Tubthumper · Apr 4, 2020

Bodian said:
If it's something up on top of a previous extension - what are they doing to the party wall itself? We have had no end of trouble at the end of our avenue where Tesco built a plant room, affected the wall which holds all our houses up, and are now refusing to have anything to do with the wall telling us it's nothing to do with them (despite it being on their deeds as their wall). What they did was outside of the planning permissions - so I would be very wary, no matter how well you get on with them. You'll need precise details from them of exactly what they will be doing, and make sure they stick to it.

I have all the plans plus a legal document detailing exactly what the neighbour plans to do to the shared wall. My question is which professional(s) should I approach to ensure what they are doing is appropriate and I’m suitably protected from any future issues.

Fountainhead · Apr 4, 2020

Option 1 - Sign agreement, but carry out a photographic survey of the outside and inside of your house, and get him to agree it as a true record, giving him a copy. Get him to agree to repair any damage caused by his works.

Option 2 - Don’t sign it. It will then deemed that a dispute has arisen, and you are able to appoint a surveyor to act on your behalf, at your neighbours expense.

In any event ask to have copies of the planning consent, building regs approval and structural engineers drawings.

There should not be any reason for him not to give you this information.

Hampster Gull · Apr 4, 2020

Herr Tubthumper said:
A neighbour has just approached me with details of a small extension he plans to build and a party wall legal document he wants me to sign, as the extension involves the shared wall. What am I supposed to do here? Get a structural engineer to look at the plans, a lawyer for the legal document?

From my lay perspective it all looks fine; am I over dramatizing things as it’s only a party wall.

When I did this to a neighbour I paid for them to get it checked from their side. It was checked before for structural issues and after. All was fine and no follow up work on their side. Have no idea if I needed to do that or not but it smoothed it all through. Think it was a surveyor.

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