[Football] Disparity in earnings

Simster · Mar 30, 2020

Weststander said:
Radio 5 kept talking today about Rashford’s recovery from a back injury. At this time, who gives a **** other than a few Manure fans?

Indicative, even now, of the relentless drip, drip, drop of PL and players hype.

As much as I love football per se, am I alone in enjoying this break from the football background noise and media narratives?

For context, Rashford has been at the forefront of a campaign to get free meals to kids who need it. He is a senior figure in that campaign because he needed free school meals as a kid himself, and so is giving something back. As part of those interviews, he has been asked about his injury. So "kept talking about" isn't really a fair representation of the situation.

Seems a bit harsh to be getting irritated by that tbh, especially as Rashford is clearly one of the good guys.

giveusfalmerplease · Mar 30, 2020

i think the same arguments can be applied in many industries. The front-line shop keepers and delivery drivers on zero hour contracts but being asked to take the risk to their health by manning the food shops and having face to face contact with customers likely earn less than 20k per year but their CTOs/CEOs/ chairman and probably senior directors and VPs would be earning 20-50 times that and they are all tucked up in their nice home offices issuing instructions to the front-liners

Simster · Mar 30, 2020

Plooks said:
Also, what utter bullshit [emoji38]ol:[emoji23] NHS staff are paid less because there are lots of people willing to do it not just British nationals!? So the high football wages is explained by the fact there are so few foreign nationals in it?

Er, yes in part. There are loads of people willing to work as nurses in this country at the standard we require. That, unfortunately, drives their wages downwards. If they all downed tools, the government would look abroad for cheap nursing. If that then dried up (or we decided foreign healthcare wasn't good enough or whatever), only then would wages rise significantly.

This is basic stuff though Plooks. If you don't agree, let's hear your undoubtedly genius analysis of the situation...

Weststander · Mar 30, 2020

Simster said:
For context, Rashford has been at the forefront of a campaign to get free meals to kids who need it. He is a senior figure in that campaign because he needed free school meals as a kid himself, and so is giving something back. As part of those interviews, he has been asked about his injury. So "kept talking about" isn't really a fair representation of the situation.

Seems a bit harsh to be getting irritated by that tbh, especially as Rashford is clearly one of the good guys.

I did know that. My criticism isn’t aimed at Rashford at all.

Just a general criticism of the UK media and their hype surrounding all things PL. I’m really enjoying this once in a lifetime break from hearing the narrative. This has been stepped up hugely since 1992, a deliberate vortex of masterful PL marketing and the media in an arms race with each other to publicise it. For the 2/3 of the country that can’t stand the sport, I know a few of those, their astute comment is that football and football finances didn’t used to be on mainstream news.

sagaman · Mar 30, 2020

Hopefully one good thing to come after this dreadful episode is a rethink on pay differentials

The amount a major company CEO compared with his average employee is as ridiculous as the amount premier league players “earn” compared with their lower league colleagues

However full marks to the Everton players chipping £50k to their local food banks

drew · Mar 30, 2020

Plooks said:
Ok lets look at the problem with your point here:
You say the reason nurses wages are being pushed down is because there are loads of people willing to work as nurses. There are not loads of people who are willing to be footballers!? Pretty much every kid and most football fans would. So that can not be the reason.
If all the uk nurses downed tools the government would look abroad? Well apart from visa issues now due to brexit, this happens in football due to the large numbers of foreign footballers and yet their wages are not suffering.

Face it, it is because people are willing to pay through their noses in terms of tickets, merchandise and tv contracts to pay footballers extortionate wages and do not want to do the same for nurses. People simply do not give a shit enough. Football tickets go up and people pay them. Taxes go up to pay nurses and people vote the government out.

Sorry, but what planet are you on?

There are far more people able to train to be a nurse to the required standard than there people able to become premier league footballers. Surely you understand that.

Within the 250 players named in PL squads, there is a variety of skill levels and therefore wages. By the way, in 2018 there were 287k nurses in the UK. https://fullfact.org/health/number-nurses-midwives-uk/

Nurses reach particularly grades and there probably isn't the range in skill levels as there are in footballers.

The only thing you've got right is your last paragraph.

Baldseagull · Mar 30, 2020

Plooks said:
Ok lets look at the problem with your point here:
You say the reason nurses wages are being pushed down is because there are loads of people willing to work as nurses. There are not loads of people who are willing to be footballers!? Pretty much every kid and most football fans would. So that can not be the reason.
If all the uk nurses downed tools the government would look abroad? Well apart from visa issues now due to brexit, this happens in football due to the large numbers of foreign footballers and yet their wages are not suffering.

Face it, it is because people are willing to pay through their noses in terms of tickets, merchandise and tv contracts to pay footballers extortionate wages and do not want to do the same for nurses. People simply do not give a shit enough. Football tickets go up and people pay them. Taxes go up to pay nurses and people vote the government out.

It isn't tickets. If you could sell tv subscriptions to watch nurses stick needles in people, and advertisers would pay to stick their products in the breaks, nurses would be up there in wages. It's our fault because we buy shit because we recognise the brand.

Weststander · Mar 30, 2020

Yes I know some of Barca’s players are multi millionaires and it’s just a one-off, but they could’ve said no. Keeping other staff in their jobs and personally afloat.

Weststander · Mar 30, 2020

drew said:
Sorry, but what planet are you on?

There are far more people able to train to be a nurse to the required standard than there people able to become premier league footballers. Surely you understand that.

Within the 250 players named in PL squads, there is a variety of skill levels and therefore wages. By the way, in 2018 there were 287k nurses in the UK. https://fullfact.org/health/number-nurses-midwives-uk/

Nurses reach particularly grades and there probably isn't the range in skill levels as there are in footballers.

The only thing you've got right is your last paragraph.

Good post, but I’d disagree with the skills bit. How do you compare for starters? Elite footballers are born gifted and combined with years of hard work, develop a great skill set. Nurses are more highly educated and widely skilled in this era than some people realise, who confuse them with NA’s.

drew · Mar 30, 2020

Weststander said:
Good post, but I’d disagree with the skills bit. How do you compare for starters? Elite footballers are born gifted and combined with years of hard work, develop a great skill set. Nurses are more highly educated and widely skilled in this era than some people realise, who confuse them with NA’s.

Nurses progress through grades from 1-7 and then, when higher, are moving into Matron roles and above. I was trying to suggest that within each grade the skill level of the nurses is more comparable to nurses within the same grade. If we use leagues as a replacement for the grades, then skill level of players within the PL varies more, I would suggest.

I agree about nurses education (I'm married to one) and I think some people still think nurses have a similar skill set to what they had 30,40, 50 years ago where as they are more skilled and professional now and the more so called menial tasks are done by Heath Care Assistants

blue-shifted · Mar 30, 2020

Weststander said:
Yes I know some of Barca’s players are multi millionaires and it’s just a one-off, but they could’ve said no. Keeping other staff in their jobs and personally afloat.

View attachment 121618

This should hopefully spur / shame a few others into action. Many clubs, especially at Championship and lower were teetering on the brink financially before this epidemic. If we can't get people in grounds be the start of next season, we'll be lucky to lose less than a dozen clubs. Rugby and cricket are also likely to see terrible losses of age old clubs.

Many players will agree to take a cut, but I do get the impression that several players (i'm sure with agents in their ears) will take the attitude that they won't take a penny less than they are contractually obliged to receive knowing that when their club goes under, they'll be able to attract another signing on fee somewhere else

jonnyrovers · Mar 30, 2020

Dale Jasper said:
There’s a strong case that nurses, and others in the caring profession, deserve to get paid more given their contribution to society. This is effectively down to the government.

With Footballers it is different. They get paid their market value as part of a business.

To compare the two is a lazy argument.

The market decides the salary of a nurse too. The market is amoral, it responds to forces that sit way outside of the value judgements that humans make. Like it or not we are all complicit in the cash value of both footballers and nurses. We pay for sky sports but won't pay higher taxes to fund higher salaries for nurses. The NHS is the third biggest employer in the world. Increasing salaries for NHS clinical staff would cost billions.

El Presidente · Mar 30, 2020

Plooks said:
If wages are driven by market forces why are nhs worked not paid millions? Without them the economy would collapse and would cost unimaginable sums of money.

Because the supply of people who can provide services to the NHS is relatively high.

Weststander · Mar 30, 2020

jonnyrovers said:
The market decides the salary of a nurse too. The market is amoral, it responds to forces that sit way outside of the value judgements that humans make. Like it or not we are all complicit in the cash value of both footballers and nurses. We pay for sky sports but won't pay higher taxes to fund higher salaries for nurses. The NHS is the third biggest employer in the world. Increasing salaries for NHS clinical staff would cost billions.

NHS pay levels aren’t a pure market though, are they? Inherently, government intervention and public sentiment has a huge say.

I’ve always said that I’d pay a few percent more in basic rate income tax if it could be directly funnelled to nurses and any other modestly paid, skilled workers who save lives and care for the infirm. I know other non-Momentum types who would too.

El Presidente · Mar 30, 2020

Plooks said:
No. There are more people willing to be footballers than NHS workers.

The vast majority of whom earn far less from playing football than NHS workers.

Perkino · Mar 30, 2020

The pay issue is about the obscenity linked to private businesses. Those who work for a government organisation have a standardised wage across the board for the level or grade you are at and very few will be outside of that structure.

CEO's and managing directors of private companies often earn bucket loads of cash because someone decided they should. Look at the recent situation with Virgin, Richard Branson earns millions every year and has recently made plenty of people jobless.

Nurses, teachers, police officers should all get a better wage but that doesn't link to business shouldn't pay anyone lots more than nurses so they don't feel bad

Baldseagull · Mar 30, 2020

Plooks said:
Nurses are far more skilled then footballers though. This is evident as I bet the nurses would perform better at football than the footballers would at nursing! We need more nurses then footballers. If we needed 287k footballers there would be 287k footballers. I would argue less people want to be nurses than footballers so it is not a supply and demand thing.

Yes it is, there are not 287k footballers that can compete at the level the top earners in this country do. If you are devaluing footballers to the level of anyone that can kick a ball, then you might as well not watch professional football and get the same level of entertainment watching kids in the park.

drew · Mar 30, 2020

Perkino said:
The pay issue is about the obscenity linked to private businesses. Those who work for a government organisation have a standardised wage across the board for the level or grade you are at and very few will be outside of that structure.

CEO's and managing directors of private companies often earn bucket loads of cash because someone decided they should. Look at the recent situation with Virgin, Richard Branson earns millions every year and has recently made plenty of people jobless.

Nurses, teachers, police officers should all get a better wage but that doesn't link to business shouldn't pay anyone lots more than nurses so they don't feel bad

Branson's pay last year was US$ 6,450,000 although he is worth considerably more. Denise Coates earned £325,000,000 last year although to be fair she would have paid a hefty amount in tax, about half I guess!

drew · Mar 30, 2020

Plooks said:
Nurses are far more skilled then footballers though. This is evident as I bet the nurses would perform better at football than the footballers would at nursing! We need more nurses then footballers. If we needed 287k footballers there would be 287k footballers. I would argue less people want to be nurses than footballers so it is not a supply and demand thing.

11,000,000 people play football in the UK regularly, a very small percentage of those are good enough to earn a living at it and an even smaller percentage are good enough to command a fortune to play. Also, wanting to be a footballer and being good enough to be a footballer are two completely different things, well, they are here on earth but on planet Plooks it might be different!!

drew · Mar 30, 2020

Plooks said:
Also, wanting to be a nurse and being good enough to be a nurse are two completely different things, well, they are here on earth but on planet Drew it might be different!!

Now I know you're just trolling.

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[Football] Disparity in earnings

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