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Covid-19 & the rise of Popularist Socialism



Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
21,630
Brighton
It’s quite astonishing to see the Conservative government shift from the right to the left. Of course, popularist governments have invested heavily in the state before, the National Socialists did this with their Public Works, Rearmourment and National Service.

Closet Brexiteer Corbyn’s interview today confirms that he is a a happy bunny now the government has invested billions into the Country.

From the BBC:
He said the government had been "shocked" by the national emergency, as their "instincts" were for "free market economics and the small state". Corbyn thinks

"They've now suddenly realised that they have to spend money to invest in the state, as we have always said as a party, and they have come around to a lot of that position."
'We need everybody'

Mr Corbyn said the government had also failed to realise how many people were in "insecure" employment in the UK when they drew up their response to the emergency.

But he believed that the pandemic had changed the political landscape forever.
"I think our society and our politics will never be the same again, because we have suddenly realised as a society and a community, we need everybody - and everybody has a contribution to make."

With the Schengen Area closed indefinitely and the possibility of quarantining or screening to enter other Countries, free movement of people in the EU might be fatally flawed. It seems Brexit might have landed on it’s feet and become a worthwhile idea way ahead of it’s time due to a viral fluke instead of the economy busting wretched nationalist little Englander project it was originally dreamed up as.

Walking along (one outdoor exercise per day), singing a song (The Red Flag), walking in a Corbyn wonderland.
 






RossyG

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2014
2,630
I’s say it’s Keynesianism rather than socialism. And despite the noisy insistence of the Tory = Nazi brigade, Johnson has always been fairly to the left of the party on many issues. This was evident when he was the Mayor of London.

I think this will be a boost to nationalism and a blow to globalism. It might be distasteful to speculate about how a post-Coronavirus Italy will respond, but my money is on them being the next to want to leave the EU.

But whatever they choose, I hope it works out for them as the poor things deserve a break after all this.
 


Beach Hut

Brighton Bhuna Boy
Jul 5, 2003
71,974
Living In a Box
So what is happening now is a requirement to keep the country going in a Pandemic situation not the creation of British Broadband with no idea what it might cost
 


Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
Obviously the "lets have the smallest possible state so that I can have shinier car" sentiment of the people will be a bit knocked off their feet for a moment, but it wont be long before greed, egoism and competition will come back and knock the shit out of generosity altruism and collaboration.
 




Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
19,721
Eastbourne
With the Schengen Area closed indefinitely and the possibility of quarantining or screening to enter other Countries, free movement of people in the EU might be fatally flawed. It seems Brexit might have landed on it’s feet and become a worthwhile idea way ahead of it’s time due to a viral fluke instead of the economy busting wretched nationalist little Englander project it was originally dreamed up as.

Walking along (one outdoor exercise per day), singing a song (The Red Flag), walking in a Corbyn wonderland.

From the BBC this morning:

After six hours of talks, EU leaders - by socially distant video conference - failed on Thursday to agree to share the debt they are all racking up fighting Covid-19, with finance ministers instead reporting back in two weeks' time.

The EU is famous for kicking difficult decisions down the road but in coronavirus terms, with spiralling infection and death rates, two weeks feels like an eternity.

Spain and Italy - ravaged by the effects of the virus on their populations and their limited public finances - were deeply disappointed.

Italy was already one of the EU's most Eurosceptic member states before Covid-19 hit. Italian Twitter was littered with expletives on Thursday - and those were just the posts from politicians.

President Emmanuel Macron of France is said to have told leaders the political reaction after the crisis could spell the end of the EU.

The thing is, the coronavirus simply highlights already existing, well-known difficulties in the EU.
 


GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,755
Gloucester
From the BBC this morning:

After six hours of talks, EU leaders - by socially distant video conference - failed on Thursday to agree to share the debt they are all racking up fighting Covid-19, with finance ministers instead reporting back in two weeks' time.

The EU is famous for kicking difficult decisions down the road but in coronavirus terms, with spiralling infection and death rates, two weeks feels like an eternity.

Spain and Italy - ravaged by the effects of the virus on their populations and their limited public finances - were deeply disappointed.

Italy was already one of the EU's most Eurosceptic member states before Covid-19 hit. Italian Twitter was littered with expletives on Thursday - and those were just the posts from politicians.

President Emmanuel Macron of France is said to have told leaders the political reaction after the crisis could spell the end of the EU.
Wow!
 


Beach Hut

Brighton Bhuna Boy
Jul 5, 2003
71,974
Living In a Box
From the BBC this morning:

After six hours of talks, EU leaders - by socially distant video conference - failed on Thursday to agree to share the debt they are all racking up fighting Covid-19, with finance ministers instead reporting back in two weeks' time.

The EU is famous for kicking difficult decisions down the road but in coronavirus terms, with spiralling infection and death rates, two weeks feels like an eternity.

Spain and Italy - ravaged by the effects of the virus on their populations and their limited public finances - were deeply disappointed.

Italy was already one of the EU's most Eurosceptic member states before Covid-19 hit. Italian Twitter was littered with expletives on Thursday - and those were just the posts from politicians.

President Emmanuel Macron of France is said to have told leaders the political reaction after the crisis could spell the end of the EU.

The thing is, the coronavirus simply highlights already existing, well-known difficulties in the EU.

Add to this the French Prime Minister has warned his country they are about to move into Spain / Italy territory with this Pandemic crisis.
 








vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,894
An awful lot of " middleclass " Tory voters are going to find out how difficult it is to get financial help,benefits and support in the next few weeks. That might well be educational.
 




Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
I’s say it’s Keynesianism rather than socialism. And despite the noisy insistence of the Tory = Nazi brigade, Johnson has always been fairly to the left of the party on many issues. This was evident when he was the Mayor of London.

I think this will be a boost to nationalism and a blow to globalism. It might be distasteful to speculate about how a post-Coronavirus Italy will respond, but my money is on them being the next to want to leave the EU.

But whatever they choose, I hope it works out for them as the poor things deserve a break after all this.

Yet Germany was taking Italian patients in because Italy had run out of ventilators?
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,313
...
With the Schengen Area closed indefinitely and the possibility of quarantining or screening to enter other Countries, free movement of people in the EU might be fatally flawed.

no wonder people get this basic concept wrong when the BBC perpetuate the confusion. free movement is about the right to live and work, not cross borders.
 


Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
I’s say it’s Keynesianism rather than socialism. And despite the noisy insistence of the Tory = Nazi brigade, Johnson has always been fairly to the left of the party on many issues. This was evident when he was the Mayor of London.

I think this will be a boost to nationalism and a blow to globalism. It might be distasteful to speculate about how a post-Coronavirus Italy will respond, but my money is on them being the next to want to leave the EU.

But whatever they choose, I hope it works out for them as the poor things deserve a break after all this.

Yes, socialism and nationalism will both rise, could see countries take a much more Juche with calls for a bigger state and more self-reliance. And I think its wise. Countries should collaborate and trade, but not get dependent on eachother.
 




beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,313
I’s say it’s Keynesianism rather than socialism. And despite the noisy insistence of the Tory = Nazi brigade, Johnson has always been fairly to the left of the party on many issues. This was evident when he was the Mayor of London.

yes, Keynesianism. and with that we have to be mindful we pay it all back. short this is over with the better. what i do think will come though is a reevaluation of how we work, supply chains and national interest in strategic business, and possibly how welfare is structured.
 


Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
21,630
Brighton
no wonder people get this basic concept wrong when the BBC perpetuate the confusion. free movement is about the right to live and work, not cross borders.

I know what free movement is. My point was that if borders are closed, living and working abroad is likely to become a lot harder, hence the statement ‘might be flawed’.

Screening and quarantine restrictions between EU Countries might be around for years if Covid-19 starts mutating effectively. I know a number of Polish people who live in Brighton, they are constantly going forwards and backwards to their home Country, a 14 day quarantine and inflated flight prices would soon change their habits. People might decide their better off in their Country of birth.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
50,156
Faversham
True. Still a bit of a wow moment IMHO.

Agreed.

I have always stuck up for the EU (common market, whatever) becase of the 'it has prevented us slipping into the conflict and war that has been happening in Europe every 20 years since time began' narrative. This is an untestable position, of course, but I was happy with not leaving the EU in the same way I am happy to accept that not eating a mushroom I find in the woods is also probably best. Either could be safe, but why take the risk?

However, without ever putting it to the test I'll never know for sure.

But...if all EU nations have set up their own responses to COVID while the EU is still discussing what to do......the EU is useless, isn't it? I put this to Mrs T, who is much more pro EU than me and she agreed. Stronger together?

I feel a bit like someone who has been paying a big bloke to stop the bullies beating me up, only to see the big bloke walk away when the bullies finally decide to beat me up. :shrug:
 


sparkie

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
12,508
Hove
We are now legal outsiders looking in on the EU.

From that perspective, it seems to me that they arn't covering themselves in much glory... If the countries are struggling to stick together now, then it is a valid question as to what will happen going forward.

Before the virus, I thought the ongoing talk of Italy breaking away was just wishful thinking for some. Maybe now it could actually happen.
 




vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,894
We are now legal outsiders looking in on the EU.

From that perspective, it seems to me that they arn't covering themselves in much glory... If the countries are struggling to stick together now, then it is a valid question as to what will happen going forward.

Before the virus, I thought the ongoing talk of Italy breaking away was just wishful thinking for some. Maybe now it could actually happen.

It could be the reverse, it depends on the support Italy, and indeed Spain get after this is all sorted out. It might even form a closer alignment in some ways with an agreement for much closer cooperation, aid and shared responsibility when tackling a global epidemic, that's for sure.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,313
Italy in particular will need some significant financial support, they were likly to go into recession as it was.
 


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