Dyson Ventilator Contract...

pastafarian · Mar 28, 2020

Thunder Bolt said:
I have no idea but prepare to manufacture with a precise number would appear to be an order. Designs and materials in place.
Firms don’t have materials in store, just in case.

The Gov has a target to have 30000 ventilators in a matter of weeks using various strategies and sources, (upscaling existing designs, new designs and importing ventilators from abroad)
I must have missed it but what is this precise number you are talking about that Gtech on its own were asked to start producing with a confirmed order as part of the overall target?

WATFORD zero · Mar 30, 2020

More good news on ventilators and CPAP machines.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52087002

University College London engineers worked with clinicians at UCLH and Mercedes Formula One to build the device, which delivers oxygen to the lungs without needing a ventilator.Forty of the new devices have been delivered to ULCH and to three other London hospitals. If trials go well, up to 1,000 of the CPAP machines can be produced per day by Mercedes-AMG-HPP, beginning in a week's time. The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) has already given its approval for their use.

And

The "VentilatorChallengeUK" consortium includes Airbus, BAE Systems, Ford, Rolls-Royce and Siemens. Companies in the consortium have received orders for more than 10,000 ventilators from the government, although MHRA approval is still pending. Production is due to begin next week.

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 30, 2020

Westdene Seagull said:
And yet you continue to bring it up ..... as an anti-Brexit slant .... as always. Maybe you could give it a rest until we're over the worst ?

What’s anti-Brexit about his post? The Dyson deal stinks and rides rough-shod over numerous good governance principles. That’s all he’s highlighting. You seem to be the one spinning Brexit.

Jim D · Mar 30, 2020

Herr Tubthumper said:
What’s anti-Brexit about his post? The Dyson deal stinks and rides rough-shod over numerous good governance principles. That’s all he’s highlighting. You seem to be the one spinning Brexit.

I'm sure that I read somewhere (probably BBC) that Dyson does have a deal for 10000 ventilators. The problem seems to be that this was done via another procurement route, and without the NHS being aware. Therefore, when asked, they said that Dyson didn't have a contract. In this case I can't see how Dyson have done anything wrong.

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 30, 2020

Jim D said:
I'm sure that I read somewhere (probably BBC) that Dyson does have a deal for 10000 ventilators. The problem seems to be that this was done via another procurement route, and without the NHS being aware. Therefore, when asked, they said that Dyson didn't have a contract. In this case I can't see how Dyson have done anything wrong.

The issue is not so much Dyson. More the government rejecting ready made ventilators from other sources and giving contracts to friends/supporters who have never made a medical device in their life.

Jim D · Mar 30, 2020

Herr Tubthumper said:
The issue is not so much Dyson. More the government rejecting ready made ventilators from other sources and giving contracts to friends/supporters who have never made a medical device in their life.

OK, well I guess that's your take on it.

WATFORD zero · Mar 30, 2020

Jim D said:
OK, well I guess that's your take on it.

There's an interesting quote in this link that was published earlier in the thread

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-26/the-ventilators-the-nhs-needs-going-into-mass-production-and-dyson-isn-t-involved/

From the "VentilatorChallengeUK" consortium of more than twenty companies including: Airbus; GKN; Rolls Royce; BAE Systems; Ford; Siemens; Mclaren; Red Bull; Renault Sport; Mercedes; Microsoft and Unilever.

The government plans to formally announce this in the next 24 hours. It had asked all of the companies involved to keep shtum until it was ready to publish the details. Dyson is not part of the consortium but had also been asked to keep what it was doing under-wraps. This is a team effort and some members of the consortium are clearly irked that it is Dyson that is attracting both the headlines and the praise. "We're team players, [Dyson] seeks the limelight," one executive told me.

It appears others may have a similar take on it.

Jim D · Mar 30, 2020

WATFORD zero said:
There's an interesting quote in this link that was published earlier in the thread

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-26/the-ventilators-the-nhs-needs-going-into-mass-production-and-dyson-isn-t-involved/

From the "VentilatorChallengeUK" consortium of more than twenty companies including: Airbus; GKN; Rolls Royce; BAE Systems; Ford; Siemens; Mclaren; Red Bull; Renault Sport; Mercedes; Microsoft and Unilever.

The government plans to formally announce this in the next 24 hours. It had asked all of the companies involved to keep shtum until it was ready to publish the details. Dyson is not part of the consortium but had also been asked to keep what it was doing under-wraps. This is a team effort and some members of the consortium are clearly irked that it is Dyson that is attracting both the headlines and the praise. "We're team players, [Dyson] seeks the limelight," one executive told me.

It appears others may have a similar take on it.

So what would be the logic behind this request? Were they worried that other nations would try to get in on it, or were they worried that they wouldn't work? I can't see any other reason not to tell the public that the NHS were on the case and had already handed out orders. I don't think for a minute that the public would think these were just waiting on the shelves to be picked up and delivered.

WATFORD zero · Mar 30, 2020

Jim D said:
So what would be the logic behind this request? Were they worried that other nations would try to get in on it, or were they worried that they wouldn't work? I can't see any other reason not to tell the public that the NHS were on the case and had already handed out orders. I don't think for a minute that the public would think these were just waiting on the shelves to be picked up and delivered.

Well obviously, I've no idea, but I think we should all back the Government at the moment, unless you have reason to think they are doing something that really isn't in the interests of the country :shrug:

Jim D · Mar 30, 2020

WATFORD zero said:
Well obviously, I've no idea, but I think we should all back the Government at the moment, unless you have reason to think they are doing something that really isn't in the interests of the country

I'm with you on supporting the government but it seems that a few people are looking for a reason to attack individuals or companies that they don't like - Dyson being one of them. I for one am pleased that they're involved in the production of ventilators as they have a great deal of expertise in the field of engineering and they could very well produce a model that will be the go-to device in years to come. Of course, it may be a failure but we shouldn't just sack them on the off-chance that it will be.

WATFORD zero · Mar 31, 2020

Jim D said:
I'm with you on supporting the government but it seems that a few people are looking for a reason to attack individuals or companies that they don't like - Dyson being one of them. I for one am pleased that they're involved in the production of ventilators as they have a great deal of expertise in the field of engineering and they could very well produce a model that will be the go-to device in years to come. Of course, it may be a failure but we shouldn't just sack them on the off-chance that it will be.

14 days ago, the Government asked for help.

Since then, The Ventilator Challenge UK Consortium has pulled together 15 companies and groups, including seven UK-based F1 teams, and five ‘key enablers’ including Accenture, Microsoft and PTC to rapidly build existing, modified or newly designed ventilators at speed.

The group of hi-tech firms and manufacturers are this week, scaling up the existing production facilities on existing ventilator designs which have full regulatory approval. They are helping Smiths Group ramp up production of ‘pacPARC plus’ ventilators to 10,000 units starting yesterday. Similarly, they will help Abingdon-based Penlon increase the production of its ES02 systems.

Also, as part of the group, Engineers from UCL and doctors at University College London hospital (UCLH), together with Mercedes Formula 1 have developed an improved continuous positive airway pressure (Cpap) device in less than 100 hours from first meeting to first production model. This machine has been approved for use for the NHS by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), the body which regulates medical equipment for use in the UK. If testing of the first 100 delivered last week, goes to plan, they will start producing 1,000 per day from next week.

Last week, Dyson became the first company to reveal it had received a formal contract from the UK government to provide ventilators, despite being asked (along with the others) to wait until the Government announcement. They have announced that they have invented a CoVent prototype, which as a completely new design, will need regulatory approval from the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA).

A bit more info on what's currently happening.

https://www.designweek.co.uk/issues/30-march-5-april-2020/formula-one-ucl-breathing-aids-coronavirus/
https://www.ft.com/content/28bc27d1-8561-4838-bd71-0d7884a15dfa

Now, I have never been a fan of the company Dyson as I see them as an Image, Marketing and Sales company, a very good example of style over substance. (Although, that said, they do it very well). They do have some engineering experience, but not even in the same ballpark as Formula 1 teams, and I think that is reflected in the progress to date.

However, where we are in agreement is that the Government is right to kick off both of these projects to get the necessary equipment into hospitals as soon as possible and the competition can only help.

And as with so much at the moment, we will only know long after this is all over, which was right :thumbsup:

Jim D · Mar 31, 2020

WATFORD zero said:
………..And as with so much at the moment, we will only know long after this is all over, which was right

Let's hope that we all are...…….

Billy the Fish · Apr 1, 2020

Dyson must've finally got approval to roll out the ventilator, great to see they're now saving lives :thumbsup:

nicko31 · Apr 14, 2020

Update....

Dyson’s brand new CoVent prototype is not thought to have undergone rigorous testing yet

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-thousands-of-bluesky-ventilators-coronavirus

Back to the experts in the field, the likes of Penlon,,,,

vegster · Apr 14, 2020

nicko31 said:
Update....

Dyson’s brand new CoVent prototype is not thought to have undergone rigorous testing yet

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-thousands-of-bluesky-ventilators-coronavirus

Back to the experts in the field, the likes of Penlon,,,,

By the sounds of things being put on a ventilator means you have a less than 50/50 chance of recovery, just wondering if some of these manufacturers with proven track records in other fields such as Dyson and Mercedes may not want to be associated with a too much " bad news" for the sake of their reputations ?

CHAPPERS · Apr 18, 2020

[tweet]1251434219139665920[/tweet]

WATFORD zero · Apr 25, 2020

As we used to call it, 'First to press, last to market' (well, not even to market, in this instance)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52409359

Surprised ?

Jim D · Apr 25, 2020

WATFORD zero said:
As we used to call it, 'First to press, last to market' (well, not even to market, in this instance)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52409359

Surprised ?

I think that's good news. Recent events and developments have seen us moving towards a treatment that does not necessitate intubation and uses oxygen via a facemask. This has resulted in very positive results regarding treatment and speed of recovery (and, of course, death rate). I doubt that this sort of innovative thinking would have occurred without this crisis, but it will now become a treatment option for all future respiratory diseases. As for Dyson, they say that their project will continue for use in other countries. I wish them luck as I believe they are being built in the UK.

WATFORD zero · Apr 25, 2020

Jim D said:
I think that's good news. Recent events and developments have seen us moving towards a treatment that does not necessitate intubation and uses oxygen via a facemask. This has resulted in very positive results regarding treatment and speed of recovery (and, of course, death rate). I doubt that this sort of innovative thinking would have occurred without this crisis, but it will now become a treatment option for all future respiratory diseases. As for Dyson, they say that their project will continue for use in other countries. I wish them luck as I believe they are being built in the UK.

It's certainly excellent news that we don't need as many ventilators as originally predicted and only an idiot would disagree :thumbsup:

Unfortunately Dyson has contributed absolutely nothing to this situation or the innovative thinking behind the reasons as explained below.

The reason this thread exists, is because James Dyson broke ranks with all the other suppliers who had been asked by the Government for a press embargo on ventilator negotiations that were underway. He broke that press embargo to announce that he had an order for 10,000 ventilators and he was going to use his engineering excellence to design a brand new ventilator.

At the time, I said

WATFORD zero said:
Now is not the time because there are far more pressing priorities, like getting more ventilators in, in whatever way we can.

I'm just not sure that re-inventing the wheel is the answer

It then became apparent, over the next few days that all the other companies (who hadn't broken the press embargo), BAE Systems, Ford Motor Company, GKN Aerospace, High Value Manufacturing Catapult, Inspiration Healthcare Group, Renishaw, Rolls-Royce, Siemens UK, Smiths Group, Thales, Ultra Electronics, Unilever, UK-based F1 teams: Haas F1, McLaren, Mercedes, Red Bull Racing, Racing Point, Renault Sport Racing and Williams had all pooled their expertise and egos to form the Ventilator Challenge UK consortium.

They set up two projects, the first to re-engineer CPAP to make them easier and quicker to lessen the need for Ventilators (really innovative, as you highlighted above).The second project was focusing on scaling-up manufacturing processes to increase the speed at which existing ventilators could be manufactured.

The first project started delivering CPAP machines at the beginning of this month, the second project started manufacturing an order of 15,000 ventilators last week.

Dyson has not yet submitted his brand new machine for regulatory approval.

I said earlier in the thread

WATFORD zero said:
Now, I have never been a fan of the company Dyson as I see them as an Image, Marketing and Sales company, a very good example of style over substance. (Although, that said, they do it very well).

And, I'm afraid this latest news has simply confirmed my initial reading of the situation (but, possibly with more even more ego than I originally thought).

darkwolf666 · Apr 25, 2020

Clearly this is all a load of old bollox anyway, as all we needed to do was inject the patients with disinfectant, as it "does a tremendous number on the lungs" - how silly we were wasting all that time developing ventilators, when we could have just stockpiled Dettol...!

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