You seem surprised a Boris led government is lying?
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How do you think Boris has handled it so far ?
- Thread starter Uncle Spielberg
- Start date
You seem surprised a Boris led government is lying?
nicko31
Well-known member
After first lying Gove then appeared on the Beeb saying there is nothing we can't do as an independent country.
Yet again exceptionalism is showing through, problem is this time its peoples lives at risk.
I suspect you may be right on that front. One positive I have noticed in all this is that people have finally forgotten about their Brexit arguments and are (mostly) united again, helping each other through difficult times - but maybe I'm being naïve to hope that will continue once it all settles down!
It shouldn't come as a surprise that Johnson lies.
I've given up on bothering with national politics, it's a complete waste of time now.
Until Facebook etc. is turned off, then the population is voting based on false reality.
Too much nudging of free will, so I am out.
Change the things in your power to change. Ignore the other noise.
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GT49er
Well-known member
Well, this current thing about whether we did or did not discuss with our friends in the EU the idea of bulk buying has rather brought the Brexit schism back on to this thread, for some anyway. Hopefully it will pass, and we'll get back to the more positive scenario you and I had both noticed.
Mr Banana
Tedious chump
Do you think there is any level of preparation a government should undertake for a public health crisis that it has months of warning for?
What is going to be the tipping point where you start to feel they might have contributed to the catastrophe?
GT49er
Well-known member
We are facing a real crisis. Why waste time asking hypothetical questions about something which they had 'months of warning' for. Let's stick to discussing Coronavirus, which took the whole world by surprise, without warning.
That is because those Brexit arguments were never as important as the constant Brexit overload forced into peoples' heads on a daily basis made out.
Once the Brexit overload was vastly reduced, guess what ? People don't care so much about it anymore.
We watched it unfolding in China, Italy and then Spain.
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 27,894
Once we saw the explosion of cases in Northern Italy the government should have effectively activated a war footing.
GT49er
Well-known member
No we didn't. It had already happened in China before we knew anything about it. The WHO first recognised it on 31st. December; the first case in the UK occurred in late January - less than a month later. The first death was recorded 6 weeks further on. Some people's definition of 'months of warning' is seriously skewed by their own agenda..
Mr Banana
Tedious chump
Years/decades of warning would be more accurate.
If you want to be pedantic then you are probably correct. But, whilst the first case/death etc occurred weeks after China rates of infection and death were low for a longer amount of time....enough to plan and prepare for the levels of testing, getting the appropriate equipment ready and also working out the best strategy.
I didn't actually say months but to claim we didn't have any warning would be disingenuous. The whole of February and deep into March the British government seemed to pulling off the impressive feat of sitting on their hands whilst having their fingers in their ears. I had countless conversations with people about the lack of action in both the UK and Spain.
This was at the advice of chief scientists. Do you think they should have disobeyed what the experts were telling them? When the scientific advice then changed, the government changed the strategy.
And of course, we still don't know whether our current strategy - or that of any other country - will turn out to be the correct one yet. But the best thing to do is always to follow the advice of the experts, as they have a better chance of getting it right than the media or general public.
Reading your posts today, it feels like we are having a debate over the leadership of the local Rotary Club. The implication is they are trying to do the right thing and it is somehow unkind to criticize well meaning amateurs. Before anyone jumps down my throat I am not describing the government and their experts as well meaning amateurs, more the reaction of some on here to criticism of their actions.
Strangely we ARE in a crisis and we should be EXPECTING excellence from our elected representatives.
GT49er
Well-known member
No, you didn't, but some people (as stated in my post) did.
The idea that the Government spent weeks sitting on their hands with their fingers in their ears is almost on a level with the bloke who claimed they had years/decades to prepare
facepalm. They were following the advice of the experts. Surely you didn't expect the Boris Johnson or Rishi Sunak to be virology experts? - it's not one of the normal qualifications one would expect for the leaders of a country.
GT49er
Well-known member
Yes, we know, and two thirds of us think the government is doing OK or better (see the poll). No idea what all that stuff about rotary clubs is all about.
Si Gull
Way Down South
No, you didn't, but some people (as stated in my post) did.
The idea that the Government spent weeks sitting on their hands with their fingers in their ears is almost on a level with the bloke who claimed they had years/decades to prepare
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ncovered-pandemic-warnings-buried-government/
Operation Cygnus would appear to give a lie to the fact that the government had no time to make preparations. It was warned in October 2016 that the NHS wouldn't cope in the event of a pandemic but chose to ignore it.
This.
Even now it is not clear what the best strategy might be, either in political or scientific terms. It is deffo a case of suck it and see. The modellers show that a complete lockdown would have suppressed the size and delayed the hight of the peak massively. But with that there would be a late second massive peak in October/November. That means restructions well into 2021. Politically untenable in my view, and apparently theirs.
With no restrictions there would be 100s of thousands of deaths (not the 20 thousand that is the present 'target') but the pandemic would be over by August, possibly sooner, millions recovered and immune and back running society. Also politically and socially unacceptable, in anyone's view aside from nutters. Avoidable deaths.
Our government took the advice, which could not be made till quite recently, to escalate restrictions so as to not trigger panic and chaos, with the aim of being as restrictive as society would tolerate, reviewing the situation daily, with the hope of delaying and reducing the peak without leaving so many unexposed to the virus and vulnerable that it would all come back and bite us on the bum in the Autumn.
They have also been quite honest, Boris himself saying people will die, rather than doing a Theresa May and saying 'we will do everything possible to prevent a single man, woman or British child dying' - then failing.
I disapprove of Boris but I remain persuaded he is doing everything correctly (by finding and following the best advice, and without making it party political - aside from his inevitable wisecracks that can hardly be viewed as considered strategy).